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Author
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Topic: Zirconia bars...want one?
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Curt Langston
Member From: ***In the shadows of Tulsa at Bixby, USA***
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posted 06 November 2006 05:22 PM
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Well, who wants a Zirc bar? Seems that the interest has fizzled.How much are you guys willing to pay? Lets have a show of whos willing to put money up. |
Steve Hitsman
Member From: Waterloo, IL
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posted 06 November 2006 07:26 PM
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I want one but I'd rather not tip my hand on what I'm willing to pay. |
Curt Langston
Member From: ***In the shadows of Tulsa at Bixby, USA***
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posted 07 November 2006 06:25 AM
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Well, money will have to be put up front for the builder to buy the materials. So, if you guys are REALLY wanting a Zirc bar, we need to know who's in and who's out.I am beginning to think a lot of guys just THOUGHT they wanted a Zirc bar. Sort of an "it would be cool to have one" sort of thing. But when it came down to putting up money, suddenly the Zirc bars lost some appeal. To me they are too light. And yes, since they are lighter, it would seem to reason they would require a heavier hand on them to sustain. I am not the engineer, so I do not know. This is just my speculation. I do know that a short time ago, there were a lot of people gung-ho for one. Now, I don't see it............................ |
ed packard
Member From: Show Low AZ
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posted 07 November 2006 06:46 AM
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Curt....wrong assumption about putting up money for the material etc...not the way it was done before, and not the way it is happening this time.I don't agree with the sustain comment. |
ed packard
Member From: Show Low AZ
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posted 07 November 2006 07:49 AM
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The pending run of Zircs is planned as 15/16" diameter; what lengths are wanted...please do NOT reply with 10 string, 12 string etc. as these are not universally standard lengths.My feelings re the bar is that it should comfortably fit the hand, not the number of strings...it should allow the middle finger to extend a bit beyond the nose of the bar to allow blocking as you move the bar back across the strings. It should allow the thumb to be used to block the fat strings in front of the bar to reduce string noise, while allowing the bar to be easily tilted/picked up, and even forward and reverse slants. RSVP re desired bar lengths...this is NOT a commitment to buy...just market info. |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 07 November 2006 08:38 AM
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Curt, I perceive no difference in sustain between the zirconia bar and a steel bar (BJS). There is a difference in timbre, but the sustain is for all practical purposes identical.
Ed, I already have a zirconia bar, but if I could have one in a different length I'd want the shortest one I could get. Lately I've really been enjoying the shorter 3 1/8" BJS.------------------
 Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog
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Joey Ace
Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada
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posted 07 November 2006 11:04 AM
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quote:
"How much are you guys willing to pay?"
I'll admit that question bothers me, but I'll give an answer:
No more than twice what a BJS cost.I've been laying low on this because it doesn't seem right that we have to bug someone to do it. It probably won't be a major money maker, so it's a project that needs to be done by someone really into helping the Steel Guitar community, not someone who was pestered into it. As for length, 3 and 5/16" or less. |
ed packard
Member From: Show Low AZ
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posted 07 November 2006 11:20 AM
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It is not going to be an issue of "how much will you be willing to pay"...It is an issue of how much they will cost to make + a % to cover the effort.The decision has been made to do it, so "pestering" is also not an issue; It is a matter of deciding what is wanted...the proposed maker needs other input than mine. |
Curt Langston
Member From: ***In the shadows of Tulsa at Bixby, USA***
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posted 07 November 2006 12:16 PM
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quote:
Curt....wrong assumption about putting up money for the material etc...not the way it was done before, and not the way it is happening this time.
I don't agree with the sustain comment.
Ok. Thats cool. Notice I said:
quote:
it would SEEM to reason they would require a heavier hand on them to sustain. I am not the engineer, so I do not know. This is just my speculation.
I realize the relationship between mass and density.
quote:
There is a difference in timbre, but the sustain is for all practical purposes identical.
quote:
all practical purposes identical.
Well, thats a pretty big claim. I don't see how it can be PHYSICALLYindentical.Because it is a lighter bar, does it not require a little more downward force from the hand to keep the strings from buzzing underneath?
quote:
not the way it was done before, and not the way it is happening this time.
Is it really happening? If so, then someone is willing to front the materials and labor then. Nothing wrong with that. My point in posting is this:
Who stills wants a Zirc? There seems to be a lull in the interest.
[This message was edited by Curt Langston on 07 November 2006 at 12:27 PM.] |
ed packard
Member From: Show Low AZ
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posted 07 November 2006 12:25 PM
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Sorry Curt...no debate forthcoming from here...changing your mind on things has been very dificult in the past.The thread is on wether you want one or not...not on the merits of the bar...please keep this thread simple...if you want, start another thread on "merits" or ? |
Curt Langston
Member From: ***In the shadows of Tulsa at Bixby, USA***
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posted 07 November 2006 12:40 PM
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quote:
My point in posting is this:
Who stills wants a Zirc? There seems to be a lull in the interest.
quote:
Who stills wants a Zirc?
Sounds pretty straight forward to me.
quote:
Sorry Curt...no debate forthcoming from here...
No debate wanted, Captain ED![This message was edited by Curt Langston on 07 November 2006 at 12:45 PM.] |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 07 November 2006 02:01 PM
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I don't know if everyone noticed, but in another thread, Buddy Emmons said that he prefers one for C6th work!See here...
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/013667.html I have no doubt that that little statement will, uhh, shall we say "motivate" quite a few of those players who are "waffling" about mucho dinero into making up their minds... and pretty quick at that!  |
Mark White
Member From: Michigan, USA
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posted 07 November 2006 04:47 PM
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I've just been waiting for the maker to get back to me, he said he would when he had the bars done. I'd like a shorter bar too, 3 1\8 " would be great.[This message was edited by Mark White on 07 November 2006 at 04:48 PM.] |
Bo Borland
Member From: Cowtown NJ
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posted 08 November 2006 12:20 AM
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I am still in!!15/16" x 3 3/8" same as my BJS [This message was edited by Bo Borland on 08 November 2006 at 12:03 PM.] |
Joey Ace
Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada
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posted 08 November 2006 06:55 AM
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quote:
"The decision has been made to do it, ..." - Ed
That great news. Thanks!
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Dave Potter
Member From: Republic of Texas (near San Antonio)
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posted 08 November 2006 06:58 AM
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I'm interested, but need more definitive info on pricing.[This message was edited by Dave Potter on 08 November 2006 at 07:10 AM.] |
ed packard
Member From: Show Low AZ
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posted 08 November 2006 07:51 AM
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Sample bars for evaluation are expected in about a month. After I beat the H out of them, if they qualify, then the fawcett will be turned on. $ will be determined at that point. The info will be published here on the Forum.Again, first batch will be 15/16" diameter. Your input re desired length will help very much. Thanks to those that have responded. The plan is to laser etch a serial # on the back of each bar just as before. Those that respond re length, and other items will go to the head of the line when it is time to order if they still want one. Thanks for posting the photos, The previous batch went to lots of "big names" as they were mostly sold thru a member of the "big names", who also did the work to make them. Patience lads, patience. |
Scott Swartz
Member From: St. Louis, MO
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posted 08 November 2006 08:58 AM
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I am still in.My ideal dimensions would length identical to a 10 string BJS, I am not near my steel but its 3 5/16 or 3 3/8 I am pretty sure. My ideal diameter would be 1", however I will gladly purchase a 15/16 from the first batch. If 1" happens later, I would perhaps sell the 15/16. Or maybe keep both. Bottom line is 15/16 in hand is better than possible 1 inch in the future. By the way the engraved number is no big deal to me, especially if it adds significant cost, but if its part of the deal no problem.[This message was edited by Scott Swartz on 09 November 2006 at 10:14 AM.] |
Sonny Jenkins
Member From: New Braunfels, Tx. 78130
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posted 08 November 2006 11:41 AM
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,,,I'm in,,,,15/16" x 3 1/2",,,,(12 String),,or a 3 3/8" is fine |
Jerry Roller
Member From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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posted 08 November 2006 12:32 PM
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3 3/8" for me with a serial number and "Roller" on the end.
Jerry |
Marco Schouten
Member From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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posted 08 November 2006 03:00 PM
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A lenght of 3.5 inch would be perfect for my hand.------------------
Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud Baldwin Crossover converted to SD-10, Evans SE200
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Dickie Whitley
Member From: Stantonsburg, North Carolina, USA
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posted 08 November 2006 03:24 PM
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Ed,
3 3/8" works for me.
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Colm Chomicky
Member From: Prairie Village, Kansas, USA
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posted 08 November 2006 04:40 PM
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I've have no issues with my current BJS length of 3 3/8, so that will work for me. Also, I'm sure slighty shorter by a 1/16 will work equally well for me. |
John Walden
Member From: Camarillo, California, USA
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posted 08 November 2006 05:05 PM
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I'm still in for two. 15/16ths X 3 3/8"
works for me as well. Thanks,Leo and Ed. |
Keith Cordell
Member From: Atlanta
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posted 08 November 2006 05:09 PM
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I'd be interested but I only want a lap steel bar, 2 7/8 or 3" by 7/8. The reason I quit watching this was the pricing and the size issue. If it is going to be a large bar I have no interest, but if the sizing is flexible I am definitely in, assuming I don't have to get another loan from the bank to afford it. |
Keith Cordell
Member From: Atlanta
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posted 08 November 2006 05:22 PM
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I was just reading back on this and the ambiguity about pricing needs to be cleared up. Either you are going to auction them, or lay out a price. It is the sellers responsibility to determine what constitutes a fair price, not whatever the market can be milked for. There are obviously a lot of buyers out there so it is not a matter of interested buyers, but if you want a commitment you need to say what we are committing to.
Sorry, but this needs to be cleared up before you can expect a lot of people to publicly commit to spending a chunk of $$. |
ed packard
Member From: Show Low AZ
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posted 08 November 2006 06:16 PM
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Read again Keith...it has been stated that this is not a commitment to buy...just a sort of market survey for preferred sizes. The first batch diameter will be 15/16"...the lengths have to be decided.When it is known what the $ will be it will be stated here, then those that have stated their preferred size(s)will be first in line to get their sizes as they are made if they still want one. These are NOT like metal bars to make, and we are not "milkmen"...lost $ on the previous run. |
Gerald Ross
Member From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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posted 08 November 2006 06:17 PM
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I'm with Keith.I don't want a pedal steel sized bar. I want a 2.75" x .75" Is this size a possibility? If so... sign me up. ------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar' 
CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association [This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 08 November 2006 at 06:18 PM.]
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Keith Cordell
Member From: Atlanta
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posted 08 November 2006 07:45 PM
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If they are all going to be that size I guess I am out. Thanks though. |
Russ Tkac
Member From: Waterford, Michigan, USA
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posted 08 November 2006 08:10 PM
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15/16" 3-3/8" |
Willis Vanderberg
Member From: Bradenton, FL, USA
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posted 09 November 2006 12:42 AM
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3 3/8 for me... |
ed packard
Member From: Show Low AZ
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posted 09 November 2006 06:36 AM
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Looks like 3+3/8" long should be the first lot....thanks for the input. Other sizes will follow. |
Kevin Mincke
Member From: Farmington, MN (Twin Cities-South Metro) USA
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posted 09 November 2006 08:11 AM
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Now we're getting somewhere  |
Curt Langston
Member From: ***In the shadows of Tulsa at Bixby, USA***
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posted 09 November 2006 12:08 PM
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quote:
These are NOT like metal bars to make, and we are not "milkmen"...lost $ on the previous run.
You lost money on the previous run? Is this not an alloy, turned down on a lathe?
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ed packard
Member From: Show Low AZ
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posted 09 November 2006 12:13 PM
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Curt...yes, and no = not that simple. |
Curt Langston
Member From: ***In the shadows of Tulsa at Bixby, USA***
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posted 09 November 2006 12:25 PM
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What happened to this prospect?Last I heard from Rick Aiello, cost was to be around 50.00 (for a shorter bar) [This message was edited by Curt Langston on 09 November 2006 at 12:27 PM.]
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mike nolan
Member From: Long Island City, NY USA
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posted 09 November 2006 01:21 PM
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I am in for a 3 3/8" 15/16" bar.... |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 09 November 2006 01:24 PM
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quote:
Is this not an alloy, turned down on a lathe?
Zirconium oxide is an extremely hard ceramic material with excellent lubricity ... It is commonly used as the articulating surface in total hip replacement surgery, as well as many other industrial and medical uses. After firing ... it is so hard in fact, that only minimal machining can be done ... Most of the shaping, etc ... must be done prior to firing. Hence the expense ... quote:
Last I heard from Rick Aiello, cost was to be around 50.00 (for a shorter bar)
That price was for a minimum of 100 units @ 2.75" x 0.75" (JB size) ... with a thumb indent. I spent quite a bit of time with the engineers at Superior Ceramics ... describing what these were and how they are used. I was pretty excited about the quote too ... till I ran the cost by the Mrs. ... Familiar with the pidgin term ... "Stink Eye" ... Anyway ... I want one, if y'all make smaller bars down the road. Mass is a non-issue for me, personally ... I spend the majority of my playin' time using a 70 gram "flat" Hawaiian bar from the 1930's.
------------------
Dustpans LTD.
The Casteels
HSGA
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 09 November 2006 at 01:54 PM.]
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Chris Lucker
Member From: Los Angeles, California USA
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posted 09 November 2006 01:34 PM
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I asked for a pair before, but in 0.875" diameter. I do not care for one in 0.938" but please include me if you intend to make 0.875s.
[This message was edited by Chris Lucker on 09 November 2006 at 01:37 PM.] |
Al Vescovo
Member From: Van Nuys, CA, USA
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posted 09 November 2006 02:55 PM
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I'll take two!! |
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