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www.dougbsteel.com

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Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud Pro III Custom

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Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud Pro III Custom

I've personally entered a few PSG tabs in a recent past and I do understand your concern.

Assuming the tablature is tagged as a PSG tablature, it would be very easy for me to add shortkeys that would accelerate the pedal and KL entry.

E.g. selecting any note then typing [A] would add a full tone and display an 'A' (*), [B] would add a semi-tone and display a 'B', etc...

(*) or the customized string you have entered as first symbol.

That sounds like it would make things a bit easier. Perhaps the values for pedals and knees (A, B, C, D, E, F, G) could be set by the user and saved? Then the user could highlight the appropriate string (space) and type, for example, 2A and that would be entered?

We don't want much do we?

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www.dougbsteel.com

The "#" "b" option is valuable from a universal standpoint in that it will work with any tuning and pedal'knee lever set-up.
Some players like this option overall.

You can place any letter on the menu on any string now with TablEdit. So "Jimmy Day" players could label string 5 changes with the letter "C", or any other letter on the menu. (Most "Jimmy Day" players think of their pedal arrangement as C, B, A, and they play standard tab).

I was thinking it might be easier if the user could save his preferences.

Roy,

I wonder how many players use the # and b notation in the tab? I've only seen 1 pedal steel method that used it. Just my opinion, but the letters seem quicker and easier to me.

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www.dougbsteel.com

[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 16 August 2001 at 03:59 PM.]

[This message was edited by Roy Thomson on 16 August 2001 at 07:25 PM.]

Don't worry, my constant concern is keeping the maximum flexibility.

TODO:

Regarding the key strokes, it is just a little facility allowing a quicker entry. So the "customizability" is not critical. In most cases, I've understood that an 'A' means a full tone higher, a 'B' a semi-tone higher... and TablEdit will apply these simple rules. If you want something more specific, you still can use the Note pitch menu.

OTOH, there is already a customization feature that you all seem have missed. You can change the symbols , i.e. to display 'EE' instead of 'E'.

These settings are not saved with the file but in the initialization file. This means Roy will still have his # and b when he loads any tablature on his PC.

3-----3----3----10
3-----3A---3----10A

On playing it back you can really hear
the pedal action.:-) When I did this I had a guitar player with me who has used Tabledit
for 3 years. He was quite impressed to think the program has come so far.
Great stuff Matthieu!!

Type a number into any space on the tab and then hit "Enter". Check off "slide", or whatever you want, and hit "Enter" again.

I hope that everyone reading this thread will download the Free demo (see page 1 of this post) and try this exciting program. BTW, I have no financial interest in
TablEdit at all. I'm just trying to promote it in the PSG community because I see it as an advancement for us, and I appreciate TablEdit's reaching out to us.

Here is a GUIDE to getting started with the new TablEdit.

open the program and:

1) click on SCORE at the top
2) in the dropdown menu click on INSTRUMENT
3) then click on the PEDAL STEEL GUITAR option and click on OK
4) using the arrows on your keyboard, put the blue square on a desired string (space) and enter a number
5) to add letters for pedals and levers, click on NOTE up above, and in the dropdown menu click on PITCH CHANGE. Choose a letter, for example... A , and that letter should appear right after the number in your tablature.
6) Adding slide lines or pedal change lines: type in two numbers on the same string (space), and put the blue square on the number to the left. Hit "Enter" and the note options box will appear. Click on "slide" and hit "Enter" again. Use the same box to add vibrato, ringing note, etc.

Click on the PRINT PREVIEW to see how the page will look when printed out.

I don't know about you folks, but I'm pretty impressed with this program.
I've been looking for something like this for years.

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www.dougbsteel.com

[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 17 August 2001 at 02:33 PM.]

Yes, the slur sound is heard every time a pedal or lever is used. That's built into the program. I don't mind that because the audio is just for reference IMO

[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 17 August 2001 at 08:28 PM.]

Roy:

You can play with many layout options to get a more compact printout. The most efficient way is the print scale setting. You can also play witht the vertical spacing options.

For example I can get 4 systems per page with the print scale set to -8 and the vertical spacing between tab and notation to 2.

Jim Cohen:

The slur audio effect. Actually it's a built-in effect. I have been told many times ago, the starting note should be played like a bend grace note.

However, since there are many note attributes with no use in PSG tab, it should not be too difficult to "recycle" some of them for PSG tab like I've done for accordion tab.

So, there could be a special palette for PSG with an effect to play a plain raised note. I need your input for the other buttons. What are your specifics needs?

To all:

When there are several pitch changes at the same time, the midi playback can be false. For avoiding this, you have to check the advanced option "Solo Predefined Instrument". So each string has its own midi channel.

I'll upload tomorrow a new demo v2.60 a3 at http;//www.tabledit.com/download/tev260d.exe.

New changes:

- the keystrokes [A] [B] [C] [D] [E] [F] [G] insert a quick pitch change. Please use the sequence [Shift]+[A]. Typing simply [a] in lower case has another (useful) effect.

- the space between the notes is increased by printout in order pitch change letters or symbols are not erased.

- the slides are always displayed as a single horizontal line.

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www.dougbsteel.com

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[This message was edited by Henning Kock on 19 August 2001 at 10:21 AM.]

You just enter the numbers (making adjustments for pedals or levers) and the notes automatically pop into place.

Or you can enter the notes and the tablature will automatically pop into place. If you do it that way, the program usually places the tab in a location that you don't want, so you just delete the tab and enter it where you want it.

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www.dougbsteel.com

I have, however, some suggestions for changes and additional features:

1. Could the permanent sliding into the pedals be taken out again? The playback via MIDI often gets the hickups and plays wrong notes, even though the musical notation displays the right ones. (I followed all the setup instructions, so I THINK I have the correct configuration in the OPTIONS filecard.) For the effect "pushing into" the pedals, couldnīt the "grace note option" be used?

2. The program should "know" which pedal changes are valid for which string, and refuse a wrong entry (with a warning "ping") - so that "A" can only be put on strings 5 or 10, and NOT on any other. It would help eliminate misprints.

3. There is no way (that I found) to put in additional pedals/levers in the NOTE/PITCH CHANGE box. There are 10 changes now - there should be more.

4. In the same box: Only TWO symbols (letters/numbers) can be used to name a change. I would like to name a change "B+G" for the split on string 6. Or "(4)", "(5)", "(6)", "(7)", "(8)" for the C6 pedals.

5. The knee "F" seems to be fixed on "-1". I want it to be "+1", and I have to change it manually every time I type the F. Am I doing something wrong?

6. The number of strings for the PSG should be extended to 13 and 14 for the "bigger" universals.

7. Right now, a pedal change can only EITHER raise OR lower. For pedals/knees that do both (e.g. some C6 pedals) I would have to use 2 different letters/numbers - e.g. if I want to RAISE the first string by +1 and LOWER the sixth by -2.

8. Would it be possible to have several user-defined pedal setups (like our copedent charts), so that the pedal changes were fixed to the corresponding string, and the program would "know" if it is a RAISE or a LOWER?

9. How about some shortcut to the pedals and knees via the function keys F1 to F12, maybe in combination with SHIFT or CTRL or ALT or AltGr? The E9-pedal "A" could be SHIFT-F1, the C6-pedal "(4)" could be CTRL-F1. That would give some 24 pedals per neck. Adequate, donīt you think?

10. Could I have "multiple TABs"? PSG plus GUITAR plus BASS (or whatever) one under the other, with syncronized timing and different assignable sounds and MIDI channels? That way a complete conductorīs lead sheet could be tabbed out and played back via MIDI.

11. The music notation is often not enharmonically correct, e.g. an Ab major chord shows as G#-C-D#, which is hard to read. Can I change the notation WITHOUT changing the TAB?

Mind you, Iīm NOT complaining - I really think the program is the best Iīve seen so far.

Best regards,
Rainer

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Remington D 10 8/8, Sierra Crown D 10 gearless 8/8, Session 400 LTD

[This message was edited by Rainer Hackstaette on 20 August 2001 at 03:18 AM.]

That last post has some very good suggestions....but I think a question is in order. ŋDo you know how a copedant works?

It is the chart that shows each pedal and what strings it raises and lowers. If not we will have to give you a crash course in Pedal Steel Guitar.

Great work as always Matthieu.

When you insert a note from the notation the note is rarely on the right fret.

To move a note upwards or downwards across the neck of the instrument (in order to adjust the fingering), select it and press [Ctrl]+[NumPad +] (to move toward the bass) or [Ctrl]+[NumPad -] (to move toward the treble). This can also be done with the mouse via the "Tools" palette. The fret position is automatically increased or decreased to correspond to the pitch value of the original note.

BTW, did you try the fingerboard window? It makes easy to see all the possible position for one given note. Just make an extended selection including the note and wonder...

Rainer:

I just installed the registered version and the possibilities of this program
are awesome!

I have, however, some suggestions for changes and additional features:

1. Could the permanent sliding into the pedals be taken out again? The
playback via MIDI often gets the hickups and plays wrong notes, even though
the musical notation displays the right ones. (I followed all the setup
instructions, so I THINK I have the correct configuration in the OPTIONS
filecard.) For the effect "pushing into" the pedals, couldnīt the "grace note
option" be used?

You must check the "Solo Predefined Instrument" advanced option in order to get a correct playback even with simultaneous slides.

2. The program should "know" which pedal changes are valid for which string,
and refuse a wrong entry (with a warning "ping") - so that "A" can only be
put on strings 5 or 10, and NOT on any other. It would help eliminate
misprints.

Sorry, but I won't do this. A TablEdit user is supposed to know what he is doing. Even for guitar tablature, TablEdit doesn't make any control on what the user is entering. But it should allow him to do everything what he wants. This is my basic philosophy. Up to now I did not find any waluable reason to change ;-)

3. There is no way (that I found) to put in additional pedals/levers in the
NOTE/PITCH CHANGE box. There are 10 changes now - there should be more.

I could give to you 15 strings. But why not to redefine an unused string like 'J' if you need it for a special tune?

4. In the same box: Only TWO symbols (letters/numbers) can be used to name a
change. I would like to name a change "B+G" for the split on string 6. Or
"(4)", "(5)", "(6)", "(7)", "(8)" for the C6 pedals.

No problem for a three char string. It will be in the next update (v260 a4)

5. The knee "F" seems to be fixed on "-1". I want it to be "+1", and I have
to change it manually every time I type the F. Am I doing something wrong?

No it's my mistake ;-) It will be fixed. Same problem for "G".

6. The number of strings for the PSG should be extended to 13 and 14 for the
"bigger" universals.

Unfortunately, this is impossible in a near future. But v3.00 will allow up to 16 strings.

7. Right now, a pedal change can only EITHER raise OR lower. For pedals/knees
that do both (e.g. some C6 pedals) I would have to use 2 different
letters/numbers - e.g. if I want to RAISE the first string by +1 and LOWER
the sixth by -2.

Same reply as for 3. The "H", "I" and "J" text strings can be redefined.

8. Would it be possible to have several user-defined pedal setups (like our
copedent charts), so that the pedal changes were fixed to the corresponding
string, and the program would "know" if it is a RAISE or a LOWER?

Definitively no. TablEdit doesnt need to know that. See reply #2.

When I say TE manages PSG tablatures. I mean it offers the way to print professional looking scores and to get a quite realistic midi playback. That's all and IMHO it is not null...

See for example the accordion or the dulcimer players. TablEdit allows them to create tablature for their instrument. It's the only program allowing this. They are happy with it and they never asked for a "tutoring" tool.

You must understand TablEdit is not dedicated to guitar, to PSG, to baroque lute, to fiddle or to any other instrument. My goal is to make the universal tablature editor. For this purpose, I'm ready to add the NECESSARY features to manage any instrument. But I wont go beyond.

9. How about some shortcut to the pedals and knees via the function keys F1
to F12, maybe in combination with SHIFT or CTRL or ALT or AltGr? The E9-pedal
"A" could be SHIFT-F1, the C6-pedal "(4)" could be CTRL-F1. That would give
some 24 pedals per neck. Adequate, donīt you think?

Sorry no. Most short keys are already used by generic features. BTW it would take longer to learn such shortkeys that to select the desired effect in the note pitch dialogue [Ctrl]+[H].

10. Could I have "multiple TABs"? PSG plus GUITAR plus BASS (or whatever) one
under the other, with syncronized timing and different assignable sounds and
MIDI channels? That way a complete conductorīs lead sheet could be tabbed out
and played back via MIDI.

Obviously. You can create up to seven modules ;-) You should download some .tef files from the Free Tablature Archive. It would give you a more complete view on TablEdit possibilities.

11. The music notation is often not enharmonically correct, e.g. an Ab major
chord shows as G#-C-D#, which is hard to read. Can I change the notation
WITHOUT changing the TAB?

Yes. Why should anything be changed in the tab?

If necessary, you can force the display of a specific alteration for any given note (i.e. display an Ab instead of a G#) in the musical staff. Simply select the note to be affected and apply the desired alteration from the Notes palette, the {Notes} menu or by using the keyboard shortcuts [d] (sharp) or [b] (flat). The note pitch of the primary note is automatically changed in the stave to reflect the alteration and the selected accidental is displayed. The note can be restored to it's original value by applying the [=] (natural) accidental.

Hi Keith,

I downloaded the 2.60 version of Tableedit (32) based on instructions in the Pedal Steel Guitar Forum.

AS with any program like this, it took a few tries to get the hang of it. But now I am doing at least ok.

Two points:

1. In the pitch Change section. It would be very nice to have the number of semitone change tied to the letter that appears. In editing Pedal Steel tab a B modified always sharps the tone 1 semitone, an A sharps the tone 2 semitowns and a D or E flat the note 1 semitone. It would also be nice to limit the A to strings 5 and 10, the B to 3 and 6 and so forth but I expect that is beyond the range of the program.

2. I had a problem in moving a chord. Sometimes when I thought I was making a horizontal move, I also wound up moving it down and lost the bottom chord member. When I move the incorrectly positioned chord up on the strings I had permanently lost the bottom chord member.

I like the ability to highlight a string (horizontally) and apply a pitch change to several notes at once.

I expect that I would like to get a registered copy, but I would like to send a money order. Do you have a "snail mail" procedure for registration?

Thank you,
------------------------

This program is pretty impressive. I've used Noteworthy for keyboard/horn work and the two are similar in the amount of work necessary to do a piece of music.

I'm sure I'll have other issues as I get more into it.

thanks for that thorough reply!

I may not have made myself clear on some of the issues, as there seem to be some minor misunderstandings.

1. I HAD checked the "Solo Predefined Instrument" box. The MIDI playback was wrong on some notes, nevertheless - and the notation and the TAB were correct. I could email you the *.tef-file.

quote: > 3. There is no way (that I found) to put in additional pedals/levers in the
NOTE/PITCH CHANGE box. There are 10 changes now - there should be more.

I could give to you 15 strings. But why not to redefine an unused string like 'J' if you need it for a special tune?<

I know that "EE", "I" and "J" can be changed. Infact, thatīs what Iīve already done. I was talking about MORE than those 10 letters. I am using 4 pedals and 6 knee levers on the E9, and two of the levers RAISE one string, while simulaneously LOWERING another. The way things are now, I would have to use TWO letters for ONE lever. Also: I lower string 6 by 2 semitones on a lever, and raise the same string by 1 semitone on the B-pedal. TablEdit refuses to accept 2 pedals on one string (our socalled "split" pedal). So I have to define yet another change with an extra letter. That way the 10 possibilities are used up fast.

quote:> 7. Right now, a pedal change can only EITHER raise OR lower. For pedals/knees
that do both (e.g. some C6 pedals) I would have to use 2 different
letters/numbers - e.g. if I want to RAISE the first string by +1 and LOWER
the sixth by -2.

Same reply as for 3. The "H", "I" and "J" text strings can be redefined.<

That doesnīt solve the problem that a pedal RAISE one string and LOWERS another. That ONE pedal would have to have TWO names. Not very practical, IMHO.

quote:> 8. Would it be possible to have several user-defined pedal setups (like our
copedent charts), so that the pedal changes were fixed to the corresponding
string, and the program would "know" if it is a RAISE or a LOWER?

Definitively no. TablEdit doesnt need to know that. See reply #2.

When I say TE manages PSG tablatures. I mean it offers the way to print professional looking scores and to get a quite realistic midi playback. That's all and IMHO it is not null...<

Matthieu, calm down. I didnīt say it was null. It is a GREAT program. I couldnīt even begin to write anything like it. Iīm having enough trouble programming smilies!

quote:> See for example the accordion or the dulcimer players. TablEdit allows them to create tablature for their instrument. It's the only program allowing this. They are happy with it and they never asked for a "tutoring" tool.<

A "copedent" is not really a tutoring tool. It rather defines the setup of the steel: which tone changes are possible, and where they are located on the guitar. The "where" is not important in this environment, but what any given pedal or lever does is of utmost importance. The pedals and knee levers are like the fingers of a guitaristīs left hand as he puts them on the fretboard. I have to know how many fingers I have and where they go. (Very often Iīve just got a handful of thumbs. )

Lastly, I donīt quite understand why you are so adamantly refusing to let the program check if a userīs entry is consistent or not. Such a "watchdog" function would not limit the users possibilities, it would only eliminat blatant mistakes. If I could tab a guitar chord with 6 fingers on 6 strings on 6 different frets, it might be very creative, but only a mutant could play that chord.

I hope Iīm not coming on too strong. This program is great already, but maybe we could still imrove on it.

Best regards,
Rainer

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Remington D 10 8/8, Sierra Crown D 10 gearless 8/8, Session 400 LTD

Someone mentioned in an earlier post that certain players use pedal C to raise strings 5 and 10 ( the Jimmy Day setup ) and he hoped that TablEdit could accomodate those players. I think that TablEdit users should be able to place any letter on any fret. That flexibility is very important.

I have had emails from several players who seem to expect the program to have some sort of "teaching capabilities". As Mattieu said, this is not a tutorial program. It does not correct erroneous entries by the user, it does not generate licks, it does not write tablature for the user. The user must have a certain amount of musical knowledge, he must know his instrument, and it's up to the user to enter the correct data.

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www.dougbsteel.com

[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 20 August 2001 at 10:42 PM.]

I aggree to what you say about the Day-setup. And as you said before, the players most often think of their pedals as C-B-A. And yes, flexibility is very important with such a highly customized instrument as ours. Thatīs why I thought it would be great if I could customize TablEdit by means of a user-defined copedent preset. I am NOT looking for some teaching capabilities. All I was suggesting was the equivalent of a spell-checker in a word processing program.

Of course the user must know the basics of his instrument and what it can and cannot do. We all are supposed to know how to spell, too. Still: people make mistakes - lack of concentration is probably responsible in most cases. An "auto-edit"- function, or a warning "beep" would wake us up. Or maybe a "check-it"-box to have the program look for inconsistencies after the user has completed the TAB.

You wouldnīt use WORD as teaching tool, just because it can ceck your spelling. It is just a nice little feature. Not essential by any means, but NICE. You only have to read half a dozen posts on this forum - including mine! - to see how usefull a spell-checker could be. Iīd hate to see what some of our TABs would look like.

Of course you can say that everybody should be allowed to embarrass himself as best he can.

Rainer

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Remington D 10 8/8, Sierra Crown D 10 gearless 8/8, Session 400 LTD

First I'd like to state I'm not upsetted at all by your requests.

I've already noticed that my written english may seem harsh to many english readers.

I'm sorry for that. If I could write in french, you would be wondering how subtle I can be :-D

> Lastly, I donīt quite understand why you are so adamantly refusing to let the
> program check if a userīs entry is consistent or not. Such a "watchdog"
> function would not limit the users possibilities, it would only eliminat
> blatant mistakes. If I could tab a guitar chord with 6 fingers on 6 strings
> on 6 different frets, it might be very creative, but only a mutant could play
> that chord.

This is a very good example. Actually TablEdit allows such a six finger chord. But (I don't know why...) I haven't seen any tablature with such fingering ;-)

I totally agree with Doug Beaumier.

You seem to have a preconceived idea about what a tablature editor should do.

For instance, with TablEdit you can associate the letter "A" with a full tone raise then one measure later with a three semi-tone lower note. That is your liberty, and your responsability... I think that's a good point.

> I hope Iīm not coming on too strong. This program is great already, but maybe
> we could still improve on it.

Sure we can. I've already added five text strings. Now you can define 15 three-character-strings.

I'm also about to adapt the ascii tab export feature in order to have the pitch changes exported.

About the midi playback problem

> I HAD checked the "Solo Predefined Instrument" box. The MIDI playback was
> wrong on some notes, nevertheless - and the notation and the TAB were
> correct. I could email you the *.tef-file.

A totally standard C6 Pedal steel setup has a pedal that lowers the 10th string 3 semitones, lowers the 9th string 1 semitone and raises the 7th string 1 semitone.

If I tab out playing those 3 strings together with the pedal down I really need to be able to put the same letter on all three strings.

ŋare the rest of the forumites in agreement?

Any other way would be right sound, wrong tab.