As far as i know there never were company rules about refunds.They used the same that every other company uses.If you didn't like the guitar or unforeseen something happened to you or your health they gave you a refund minus the downpayment.That's normal standard.Not only in The U.S but also here in Europe.

When you have a good and reliable company you build up a reputation.The Lashley's (from my point of view)have had a good reputation.Just look at the fact that they would send out parts without you even paying upfront says more then enough.
They have done so for numerous years.My opinion is that the company has come to a point were they had to decide wether to change their policy or quit building.If it were me i would change my policy and send out a copy of this change to every customer in my database.
They never made public that they changed their policy.Not to Dealers nor to customers.They should have made it public that they did this so a customer or a soon to be customer should be given the time to decide to order or not too.

quote:

---

Insulting Cor, who is the injured party here, will not help anything.

---

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

[This message was edited by Ronald Steenwijk on 10 November 2004 at 12:57 AM.]

I can speak of NC and Georgia where the retail consumer protection laws are clear..if you have an odd ball policy it must be posted in your store or in your place of business..or it must be clearly written on your initial paperwork which is received by the customer. These are consumer protection laws. Every state has them. This is why we have a so called cooling off period to back out of a deal..if you read something about the deal that you don't agree with.

now in this situation , if the policy was clear that you loose your 100% payment for a cancellation,( which I doubt is true) then the consumer has every right to just say..fine..give me the product which I paid for 100%. There is no such thing as a legal policy in the USA to pay for something and loose all your money because you changed your mind..there may be a penalty..but the penalty is not 100% of your payment. If the policy was 15% penalty for cancellation I would certainly think that was resonable..and common...

Judge Judy would pretty much just say..ok..you don't want to retun the money, then give him a guitar..you can't keep 100% of the money and the guitar that was paid for..even if there was a penalty for this deal the court order would be to give a guitar at the value of the $4500 minus the penalty..or return the cash with a common penalty discount.

I suspect now that unfortunatley there will be no resolution here..too much time and too many words have flown by with no reponse from the manufacturer which is never a good thing..this cannot be defended by any stretch...

I hate this for Cor..I hate this for Ron Jr., I hate it for our Steel Guitar society..

we are now approaching 400 posts on this topic..this has got to be an Internet record..

t

quote:

---

I hate this for Cor..I hate this for Ron Jr., I hate it for our Steel Guitar society.

---

------------------
Frank Estes
1978 Emmons D-10 8+7 #2441D
1968 Emmons D-10 8+4 #1234D

hear ya'h

Rick

The bottom line of this may be that Cor will never recover his money or get the guitar, and that's a shame.

There are builders that can build you a D10 8x6 for that money.

Ron

Say hi to the immitation Patsy for me..

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 11 November 2004 at 02:06 AM.]

Is this guy getting his $$ back or not?

If Emmons Gtr Co Inc. has not even built this guitar ...what's the deal?

maybe we can talk about it but they ignore everything i send to them so i have no other choice.
and then i do it my way till they come up or not.

cor

[This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 11 November 2004 at 09:23 AM.]

thanks for asking.

yes it goes better with me slowly but carefull. i'm working already and that isn't the problem yet but the muscle vibrations and reflexes coming up at the unexpected times and when i have this i'm not able to play steel and also not in a band.
so thats why i had to dicided to quit with steel and don't wanna lay a expensive guitar under my bed, but it goes better and hoping i could come back on steel soon.
but i'm carefull to say that because i'm not trouble free with my health.

but anyway thank you for your interest in it.

greetings

I have had a casual relationship with the Emmons Guitar Co., and the Lashley's since the early 60's.

I knew Ron, Sr. and more recently Ron, Jr. and Rebecca.

I just recieved a parts order which was placed on November 4th, and recieved November 8th, now how much more efficient and trustworthy can it be? and I spoke directly to them.

I presently own two Emmons guitars and have owned two others, never have I had to wait for a phone call or delivery of a guitar or parts.

Remember, The Aycoths, not the Lasleys, were responsible for the delimma Bill Jenkins experienced in recieving his guitar but,Ron, Jr and Rebecca fullfilled that order.

Where was the recognition for this?.

Something must be missing with the issue between Cor and the Lashley's.

I would suggest it is time to cool it! as all the adverse comment do not contribute to the closure of this difference.

Futher, Mike Sigler, I will trade whatever you need to shore up your bed for the Emmons guitar your are presently using for this purpose, further, I will trade you a new GFI Keyles, with however many P's & K's and/or a GFI keyed with however many P's & K's for those 100 P/P,s youn mentioned in the GFI opinion thread.

Best regards,
Jay Thompson

[This message was edited by jay thompson on 11 November 2004 at 06:30 PM.]

In your post you said:

"I would suggest it is time to cool it!"

If you were lucky enough to have good luck,
or be respected enough by them to get your parts promptly,
or at least be percieved as enough of a future revenue source,
that you get your parts promptly, then fine for you.

But all apearances so far point to them not respecting Cor in anyway.

But those defending the companies conduct, or not even bringing up the issue with them on the phone, are actually harming the company,
by giving them the impresion that this conduct towards Cor is acceptable.
That it is just a small gust not a storm, and that we support you vs this guy.

Possibly from an attitude of
"I need my parts, so I will side with the 'injured party' my supplier,
who is being bad mouthed by the irrational and irrelevant mob."

Well, this helps drag on this issue....
How many out there are unhappy with the companies act towards Cor,
but are AFRAID to post against them because they are
worried about parts arriving in the future...???

Thinking maybe: "If they can be this vidictive vs,Cor,
well I better just keep quiet."

Cor doesn't think he can ever play again,
or at least is not sure to even play in his room,
ceretainly not profesionally, if at all.
So he will likely NOT buy a future Emmons...

So he is off the list of prospect revenue sources,
thus not deserving of ANY respect.

Add that he can't sue easily because of his location.
Maybe he raised his voice on the phone once,
and is now persona non grata.

Enter the steel forum.

The great majority of people who fully understand the issue,
are APPALLED with the company's conduct...
Some have come on and stated only once,
others have been more active.

But clearly there is also a large lurking silent group,
and some of them eventualy have noted their support,
and there are surely others who are silent,
but thinking about it all.

There are a few who are such phsycophants that they seem to feel a need to actively support the company. Clearly not grasping the signifigance of the issue,
or just not having the charity to support the injured person
vs the entity.

The other closed thread, did bring into focus some other issues.
It was clearly directly related to this thread, even if posing otherwise.

The Lashleys are noted to be aware of this thread,
but seem to be treating it with sarcasm and disdain,
as if all the potential LaGrande buyers reading this will treat it
with the same disdain they engender.

As if all potential LaGrande buyers are callous , selfserving, un-feeling, and mercenary
towards someone injured and unable to return to his muscal career.

There are some who could care less about the rights of the individual.
Or treat it like a joke... sometimes repeatedly.

There are some that could care less about the rights of those from other countries,
especialy those more " liberal" than their own personal
or regional environment.

Or don't have charity for those not professing the "same christian values" loudly enough or at all, and so they don't deserve respect.
They are bad people, or sinners, not being "born again" and "good christians", or espoucing thoughs counter to your own,
so who cares about them.
Or they are being supported by people you don't like...
so they can be ripped off, OK?
... maybe?... who knows?
I don't care about them, they have
the wrong friends
or wrong ideals
or wrong morals IMO!
Wrong support for the war... or just not enough...
it can go on like that.

In any case the forgeign injuredperosn Cor, is not being supported,
vs the local entity.
Parochialism of the lowest order IMHO. Shameful... God made the world, not just your corner of it.

Thank fully they are also CLEARLY a small but vocal minority.

Fortunately they are MORE than balanced out by those
who's faith compels them to support Cor in his fight.
The little guy vs the arbitrary company. Dping the RIGHT thing vs doing nothing.

"To each his own"... fine, IF, and a big IF
it does NOT injure or contribute to the injury of others.
Regardless of their location, faith, language, or govermental philosophy.

I note a little post above that said Big E posted ahwile back, that he wouldn't be sad if the company went under....hmmm interersting. Like possibly he wants his name back,,, free and clear.

Back to legal issues :

To get a lien, one must have a judgment first.
So to Small Claims Court,
win by rights or by default,
then the bailif ot sheriff can enfource a lien on the company.

Again this likely would include interest on the sum since the date of either
cancellation or reciept of moneys involved.
And possibly travel costs if onerous, which they would be in this case.

If the letter writing / embarrasment campaign bears no fruit,
then the best shot is clearly going to Small Claims Court in NC.
Cor definitly pursure that process ASAP.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 12 November 2004 at 06:10 AM.]

Cor's best chance is in small claims court as I see it. I would like to ask a favor of someone close to the Lashley company's location to take a half hour (or less) out of one of your days, and call the small claims court and ask if Cor actually has to appear or if he can have someone stand up for him. If I was close, I would be happy to do it for him. I would also check with the postmaster general about the possibility of mail fraud in this case. I believe that is a felony.

And, those of you that are praising Lashley for sending them parts, big deal. They probably used Cor's money to obtain them. Once they have the parts in stock, all they have to do is slap a box around them and hand them to a UPS man. Not much labor involved there. So, their return is probably higher on parts as opposed to guitars due to the labor costs in building a guitar.

On the subject of someone buying the Emmons company, I don't think it would inherit the negative press that the Lashleys have. After all, weren't we all thrilled when Ron Jr. took back the company with hopes of getting the company back into a good condition like his father had it?

I certainly hope that Lashley will do Cor right by returning his money so this can all go away and they can get back into the business of building the great guitars that they make.

I live 1.5 hours from Burlington, and am close enough to attend small claims court in Cor's behalf, which I am now offering to do. He needs an advocate here locally; an injustice has apparently been perpetrated upon him, and that's hard for me to bear. I would do the same for any of you, given the same strong evidence that seems to exist here.

Cor, if you will give me written "power of attorney" to represent you in this case, I will go to the administrator of Alamance County small claims court and find out what we need to do to recover your funds. Then I will file in your behalf and we'll proceed to get a court date set.

I am not an attorney, but I do not think we will need an attorney to accomplish this. IF an attorney is needed, I have some friends that are members of the NC bar, and I can probably get one of them to ride over to Burlington with me for the day. If fees are incurred, they shouldn't be more than $400-$500, and perhaps our fellow Forumites will help defray the expense.

Cor, I need the following from you:

1) A written document giving me "power of attorney" (if you have any question about these American legal terms [I'll put them in quotes] consult your Dutch/English dictionary or just email me... I'll try to explain. It's important that we be exact.) This document must be "sworn" and "notarized".

2) A photocopy of your receipt for the $4500 from the Emmons Co.

3) A photocopy of the endorsed/cashed money order/check, if you have it.

4) Photocopies of any other documents in your possession relating to statements or promises the Lashleys made you concerning this deal.

5) A written account of the history of this deal, beginning with the first contact and continuing up through today. Please include dates of any telephone conversations with Emmons. This must be in clear English; Ronald's English is good, so I suggest you writing it in Dutch and letting him translate it into English before sending it to me.

6) Danny Hullihen, it would helpful if I could get your story with regard to your conversation w/ Ron Lashley, Jr. re: the "policy"- in the form of a written/signed/notarized affadavit.

There may be other things I'll need and, if so, I'll let you know about those. This is a start, at least.

When funds are recovered (and they almost certainly will be) I'll forward all of the money (less any expenses) to you. If expenses are incurred, I'll consult with Forum members about those and ask for donations... so that, hopefully, you will get the entire amount of the judgement back.

No one wishes the Lashleys any harm... but all of this could've been resolved by them long ago, if they had just communicated and done right by Cor. A molehill has become a mountain. The silence of the Lashleys seems to speak volumes... i.e. if they had a defense, they would've offered it by now. So... to court we go. And, Cor my friend, if you don't accept this offer of help, DO NOT post again on this topic. It's the moment of truth.

Rick
(edited for syntax and punctuation)

[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 12 November 2004 at 05:40 AM.]

It would obviously be best for all concerned if Mr. Lashley would call Cor now and work out a payment plan. Even if it was $250 per month until settled, everyone would prefer it to the court route. I do not WANT to be involved in this- nor does anyone else, for that matter.

I expect Cor would be amenable to any reasonable offer... and this Forum would hold his feet to the fire!

[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 12 November 2004 at 06:08 AM.]

Get him everything he asks for.
And passing it first by Ronald seem a very good idea.

A power of Attorny, would mean he is legal capable of acting in your behalf in all matters of law in the USA, but would not aply to you outside the USA.

It would need to be made an official legal document, but a notarie, or which ever personage in Nehterlands is empowered to give the power of the court to a document.

It might also be correct to speicfy he has power of Attorny to act in one specific matter, such as this steel suit, And it also could be time limited, say for one year,
or depending on North Carolina law, in all matters, until it is recinded.

I have given power of attorny to people in the past with no problem.
It is similar to a proxy to act in your behalf, but more powerful.

Rick you have proved to me again why you are one of my favorite people on this forum.

Good on you mate!

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 12 November 2004 at 06:04 AM.]

Don't bring the Aycoths into this unless you know the whole story. That in itself is a real problem that should not be addressed in this post. Unless you have talked to the Aycoths and know what happened from their end you should leave that issue alone.
Suffice it to say, there is more to the story than you've heard here.

"Something must be missing with the issue between Cor and the Lashley's."

You are right that there is something missing. It's Cor's $4,500.00. The Lashley's have it. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

[This message was edited by Doug Rolfe on 12 November 2004 at 06:00 AM.]