The only thing that Emmons or another builder can do is keep the downpayment and refund the rest of the money.

I don't know how these things are handled in The U.S.A but overhere in The Netherlands people can withdraw there payment at any time if they want to.The only thing that has to be paid is the downpayment.
The people overhere are protected by the law in such cases.
However if the customer has made a legal transaction and signed the required papers they are liable to this agreement.
Both the customer and the salesman have to obey these rules.

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

[This message was edited by Ronald Steenwijk on 06 October 2004 at 01:30 AM.]

Sometimes americans don't put their thoughts together very well either. Our language and dialects leave room for as much unclarity, or outright deception as any, and more than most.

English is a language devised to take things from people without them knowing how it happened.

Ask any indian.

In this case. Things we don't know:

Whose name was on the two checks. Whether it was "Emmons Guitar Co". Who cashed the Checks? Who endorsed them? Where were these checks sent? Which bank cashed them?

"mother of Rebecca cashed checks, has money and gave to them" is a pretty piss poor description of a $4500 situation in any language.

Any cab driver in Amsterdam could put it more clearly than the respondent.

I've been in Holland and found many kinds of language barriers, dialects.

Also I have found in my dealings over the years that often people can feign minimal understanding of a language to keep from explaining all the pertainant details.

For instance.

A check could have been sent to anybody here, cashed by anybody, and never have come anywhere near the Emmons Guitar Co. It could have been sent to a friend, or several people here could have tried cashing several checks made out to god knows who until they finally "hit". Kind of a "free money transfer" Of course, the bill would be picked up by either the bank or the company, unless nobody cares to "write it off".

We've seen dozens of "offshore check cashing scams" here. I know I have.

Absent the pertainant information I mentioned: Full name of the Payee, Full Name of the Endorser, Bank on which the checks were drawn, Bank that cashed them, and address to which they were sent, I nor anybody else, however well meaning onlookers can't make any sense out of this situation.

I certainly can't, and I speak pretty good "american".

The information I mentioned is pretty easy to type ( or have translated and typed) and pass on. It's absolutely imperitive.

The AG will tell him the same thing.

I'm outa here.

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 06 October 2004 at 09:32 AM.]

New people are getting drawn into this topic as , seeing it for the first time, they are asking Cor the same questions over and over again!! Go back over the previous topics on this case and you will see he has answered all the questions!!!!!

I hope that you can be of some help to him.

peter that wrote that i was a dealer, i can tell you i never was a dealer from emmons.

so stop speculate these things

and peter i was sending you a personal email where i stated that i wasn't a dealer

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Like it or not the lost revenue on ONE instrument, by being obdurate,
is likely to be less expensive than just biting the bullit and dealing with the problem.

Even if it is ONLY for PR reasons.
Maybe Emmon's Co. doesn't care about international sales?

The lawyers would likely cost half the cost of the steel,
but the on going public ill will will last for a LONG time in some quarters.
Just ask MSA's staff.... some wounds are darned hard to heal.

What is $4,500 vs your good name.
Regardless of whether hot tempers and mis-comunications caused the problem.

You have on one side a little guy, on the other a a company.
Which side do you think individuals are siding with?
If Cor were to file in Small Claims Court he could present his evidence himself and get a fair hearing.

I am NOT trying to hammer Emmons Co.
but pointing out that the public IMPRESSION is changing,
and not in their favor.

www.genejones.com

[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 27 October 2004 at 08:24 AM.]

Farris have you got shares in the Emmons Co??
Where are a lot of people getting hurt??
As far as I can see ,Cor is the only one that is hurting!

quote:

---

What happens if we all do nothing?

---

Sometime ago Cor and I spoke on the phone about this, and in several emails. Being that I was an Emmons dealer, I told Cor that I would contact the folks at Emmons to see if I could perhaps help him in these regards in some way. I was hoping that maybe Ron would send me Cor's guitar to sell for him here at the store. I advised Cor that it would be very difficult to try to get $4500.00 for a standard mica D-10 Emmons, but I would try. Unfortunately, that couldn't happen, and here's why, or moreover, what I was told.

When Cor became disabled and hence, couldn't play the guitar, he called Emmons and canceled his order. When that happened, Cor's order was pulled from the build list, even though it had already been paid for. They openly admit receiving the money from Cor in the amount of $4500.00. In order for Cor to receive a refund, this is what would have to happen, and exactly like this...

Someone would have to place an order with Emmons for a guitar with the exact same color and set up as Cor had ordered, and at the same price. If and when that happens, they would then issue a full refund to Cor, but not until. I was told that this is the new policy at Emmons guitar, and that's the way it's going to be from now on.

So guys, you can read into this anyway you want to, but this is the story, and what has happened here to Cor is very real. He paid for an Emmons guitar in full, he has received nothing in return. No guitar, no refund, no coorespondence from Emmons, NOTHING! This is all very sad, and to say that I feel bad for Cor would be a bit of an understatement.

The easiest and cheapest route for Emmons to take would be to build a guitar for Cor, and send it to him, or to a reputable person who could perhaps sell it for Cor and help him recoup at least some of his costs. Of course, a full refund is what he truly deserves, especially considering the fact that there was no expenses incured for the Emmons Guitar Company. Unfortunately, or at least from what I've been reading here, it appears that they are not willing to do either.

I'm quite sure Cor would certainly rather not have to contact officials here in the states for help on this matter. It isn't like he went to a casino and gambled away $4500.00, and is now crying about it. He sent his money in good faith for a product he never received, and apparently never will receive. So all you nay-sayers, don't be so hard on Cor about any of this. He is not the perpatrator, he is the VICTIM!

I believe Cor has came to this community hoping for help and advice from us Americans, as there is little anyone could do from where he is at. Most of the folks posting here appear to have compassion for Cor, and I'm very happy to see that. However, those that don't obviously never had to walk a mile in this mans shoes, if you know what I mean?

The arrogance of that business practice is absolutely astounding. What difference would it make what setup was on the guitar if they never built it?????

That's what floors me. They are just refusing to do the right thing for a customer. If they think they are as stable in their reputation as they were when Big Ron was there, they have another thought coming. They've lost me as a customer, but they'd already done that by refusing to make a 12-string anyway.

Sad indeed. It tarnishes the most recognized name in pedal steel guitar for the price of one guitar.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 27 October 2004 at 04:01 PM.]

Knowing the facts, it only hurt me more to see some of our members insulting Cor.

Deciding to have "New Policies" or maybe even "new projected costs and/or waiting periods (outside of a reasonably small percentage)" that change the companies' liability to produce as originally agreed is massively arrogant if not illegal after the checks are cashed.

In this case, you change things after the money has changed hands, it's not cool.

In this case It's going to cost the company more than ten times $4500, not that it will do Cor any good.

My thanks to Mr Davis for making Cor's point more understandable to us "street americans'.

When it was pulled from the "Build List" the check should have been cut and sent. Deductions for check cost, minimal office cost, and postage would be reasonable. Like maybe 5 bucks. Any policy taking money for no consideration, new or not is illegal in any state that I am aware of.

Best thing for a business to do is do what they say they are going to do, when they say they are going to do it, and DO IT.

Somehow I see a dying, desperately struggling business. That's the clear sign they are putting out by taking money for a guitar taken off the "build list".

I wouldn't order anything from them, even COD.

quote:

---

" Could we as Forum members place the order for the exact guitar and let it be delivered to one of our members and then sell it for Cor?"

---

Wasn't it on there for a while to begin with?

Barring there wasn't a "New Policy" in the interim.. Maybe like a $4500 "Relisting Charge"...

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 27 October 2004 at 08:18 PM.]