Jerry,
My understanding is a new order requires new payment.
If your plan would work, then Rick or Danny should be able to get it.

[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 27 October 2004 at 08:22 PM.]

This is the darnedest policy I've ever heard of.

I'll gladly place the identical order, but would I then have to put up another $4500? Doesn't that make $9,000 they'd be holding at one time? For a guitar that hasn't been built yet? Geez.

[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 27 October 2004 at 08:39 PM.]

It's o.k. when a company changes their policy.But if they do so they will have to let everybody know that they ere changing them.In all of the posts above i can see that none of you knew about this change.Neither did i.
And i agree with everybody that says that Emmons should have answered to Cor or any attorney.And till now they have not done so.

And as far as the ordering goes....i am a steel builder myself but i still like the sound of an Emmons PP.
And i like the looks of that new one that's on the site.Guess i will have to wait on how this story ends.

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

[This message was edited by Ronald Steenwijk on 28 October 2004 at 01:43 AM.]

Regarding Emmons Guitar Company, to even think that a person and/or company would come up with such a ludicrious policy like that is beyond ridiculous! "Policy"? Perhaps that's one way of putting it, but I don't think so. When I consider the detailed requiste in this case, albeit ridiculous, I would hardly call that any kind of policy. I would call that, "let's make up the rules as we go"! Here again, the Emmons guitar Company is offering Cor a full refund of his money, but in order for that to happen someone has to place an order for a guitar "exactly the same" as what Cor had on order. Go figure? The stories I could tell about the many unethical business practices at the Emmons guitar company would make you all very ill!

I know this is all very unsetteling to all of us. Not only because of what has and is happening to our friend Cor, but also because of what it does to our many years of faith, pride, and dedication to Emmons Guitars, and its founders. It's kind of like a marraige gone bad... a love/hate situation that just rips you up inside.

The part that bothers me most about this is that Ron has been afforded several oportunities to try to make this right with Cor. Preferably with a refund, but if not that,then other options as was offered. Unfortunately, it appears at this time Ron doesn't want to entertain ANY offers or options, not even correspondence with Cor.

I don't think there are any doubts in our minds that the folks at Emmons have been reading these posts, and I'm sure they have. Perhaps it's a simple matter of they cannot afford to refund Cor's money? Hey, that can happen to any company, and it's understandable. However, to just ignore Cor, and all these posts that are saying, "hey Emmons, don't you care even a little bit" well guys... I'm sorry to say, but it just doesn't leave much faith in them doing the right thing here.

but i like to thank Danny first because he was the only one that really knows this story because of his phone call he did then with Ron,jr.

and he knows that i was paying the $4500,00
and now i'm reading here that Rebecca says that they never received the money, they are lying everytime. they cashed it on 9 december 2003 by a moneygram office in the same street as where they settled.

and let me point out here something that i already said earlier,

i never pay in front ( only $500,00 to process the order ).

but i pay for a guitar that should be ready but was laying on stock for me,but after i called them and say i have the money and it comes right next to you in a minute, they said okay we will hold it up there at the moneygram office . i was sending $4000,00 plus the $500,00 in front makes $4500,00 9 december 2003.

and then when i called them if they received it they said Cor we sold your guitar and you agree with that.
so i was totally suprised because i never send so much money for nothing, but tricky from them to tell me after i was sending and they where cashed it.

anyway so naief i was i told ron build me a new one and he says okay, i ask how long does it takes he stated 12 till 18 weeks
i said okay in march or april.
Well then at the end of may nothing but my healthy was going worser because of my big caraccident i was having 2 years before.
and it was so worse that i must decide to quit with playing and don't wanna put a brand new expensive guitar under my bed, so i called ron and told him the news and he said ooh your guitar is just finished and it looks good i would take pictures.
i said yes but find another customer for it and he said okay but you have to wait till i found someone and then you could get your money back i said okay but not to long ,and he said okay we will do our best.

then a couple month's later i hear nothing and put here on the forum if there was maybe something wrong there because of the silence.
then danny came in and ask me if he could help me to sell it for me because he has more customers or contact's
and i said okay danny do me a favor and called ron,jr and ask for my guitar.
wel he did right after our phonecall and he found out the guitar was never build.

and he also knows that i have paid for $4500,00 because ron,jr told him that many times and now somebody came up here with the message from Rebecca that they never received my money ( rediculous ain't it? )

well any way hoping you guy's and great forumites will now see the other side of the story and that i'm not telling lies or rumors it is absolutely true and i was a big emmons fan and lover so it hurts me more then you will ever know!!
finally after 20 years order a emmons and gets this.

and Ronald keep building your own steels they look great and if they sounds as they looks ''KEEP IT BUILDING MY FRIEND''

so my hands keep coming painfull from typing here
so i like to say till next time and thank you all here

and don't forget it is not my style to keep them down but they will doing it to themselves on this way and on the other way
nobody deserves it to stay in the busyness as they do it like this way.

(and here at the end of my writing i like to thanks John Davis because of his experience he is doing on this case.)

Cor

[This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 28 October 2004 at 09:54 AM.]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

quote:

---

That's the problem. No guitar. No refund.

---

An arbitrary rule about build list is the purest BS,

a) they took the money,
b) the order was cancelled before delivery
c) the order was cancelled before it was built
d) if ANY parts were pre-ordeded or colated for this specific guitar, they have long since gone off on another guitar of some set up.
e) The difference in color, or exact setup is irrelevant because it is likely the cost of another similar color,
it is likely the cost of another set up, or the parts get used on a 3rd possible instrument.

f) no delivery, then on to return of payment list..
This is based on the laws of most any state.
And likely federal inter-state laws as well.

The arguements by Ron are totally arbitrary,
and specious at best.
Is he the boss? Or is it a commeittee of 3?

Is this company so big, like Enron, they have no ability to deal with things on an instrument by instrument, case by case, sale by sale basis.

Their arguments DO NOT hold water.

But they do make one think the company
is on the edge,
and that it will not treat a customer fairly.

I think the $4,500 will be the least of the company's problems ongoing...
The public goodwill is in the hopper.

How many people here would put down a deposit with this company...
when so many used steels are out there.

And then even with a used one,
I wouldn't feel good sending cash for more parts...

You have several potential customers publicly saying : I won't buy...
How many non posters think the same?

Worse yet, I hate to see Buddy's family name dragged though the mud,
when he is in no way at fault here.

In essences a Lashley Public relations catastrophy.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 29 October 2004 at 05:02 PM.]

Let's assume that Emmons decides to produce a guitar for Cor. One would think that would be a very good public relations decision; however, do you think it is too late? Has there been permanent damage to the company's reputation?

------------------
Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande

i didn't cancellled the order i say ron,jr sell it to another customer i can't play it
but it was never build instead of ron,jr said it was ready to go so they lie to me and still do.
and they didn't contact me or responde on my emails but they owe me my $4500,00

i didn't understand that this is possible in the states, as say before by the two other people from the netherlands here on this, by us in the netherlands it isn't possible to do this through customers.

so read the post carefully before you come up with things!!!!

sorry thats my opinion everytime you come up here with something.

ooh' and Lee thanks for coming in but i heard that i'm not the first one that have trouble with them and if i had ever know it before i can tell you that i wouldn't do busyness with them.

and jimmy and all of you guys here i order a rains steelguitar and will lay it under my bed hoping in the future i can go on with steel playing.

but this has never anything to do with the emmons story.

greetings guys

cor

[This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 29 October 2004 at 08:01 AM.]

you all guys here know what is going on said by me by Danny and by John.

and for the last time it is true!!!!!!!

if you look for a new guitar that is perfectly build and sounds as good as is look

call Bob Rains and order you one

in my opinion taste is a personal thing but nothing can beat this great guitar

so thats the last one here

You can't argue over taste.
IMHO Emmons build the best Steel guitars ever made.And uptill now they continue to do so.What has happened to you has nothing to do with the fact that the Emmons guitar is a great sounding and playing instrument.I owned two guitars made by Emmons and never had any problems with them.
All of us agree on the fact that if you are entitled to a refund you should have it.

I can understand Farris' point of view when it comes to the Emmons company.The only thing that he would like to say is that there are so many Steelers around the world that would hate to see Emmons go down the toilet.
I can understand that there is nothing you would rather see.If it were me i would think the same way.And it sure is a good thing that you are being compensated by Rains guitars.Allthough i am not sure if they are the ones that should do so.

Please don't get me wrong about this because you and I have always been good friends and i would love to stay that way.

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

[This message was edited by Ronald Steenwijk on 29 October 2004 at 10:26 AM.]

They don't matter they are not in out legal jusrisdiction.
Or not in our normal demographic, or
heck they's strangers, not like" US."

But Jim's point on it being a bad reflection on America is telling also, and a new twist..

Yes folks the world is watching us RIGHT NOW.
To see what we think, and how we act.
Just like we are watching Lashley...

It is very possible our individual actions will have both small and grave consequences ,
for ALL americans in and out of the USA proper.
The board of directors is about to make a decision,
that affects everything, not just company functioning and policy,

And all others are watching and waiting to decide,
what they wil do in concequence or responce.

Just as this one incident over a pedal steel is being reflected world wide,
and no doubt affecting the future of Lashley in some way negatively.
Our actions as individuals will also be seen and interacted with world wide also.

DO we all acknowledge we are not alone, like Lashley should,
or think, gee we run our own show, no one else matters.

The USA may be a big country,
but it's a small world....

Lashley may make a great steel, but people are watching and deciding if they want to deal with them...
Are there no parallels here?

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 29 October 2004 at 11:30 PM.]

The Emmons company should have a policy copy on the internet aswell because you can order from the internet.I have looked for one on their site but i do not see one.

quote:

---

As long as there is no clear statement on paper from Emmons about this issue, there is nothing to agree or disagree with them.

---

What you are saying is that there can't be anything done..
I totaly disagree with you on that.If there is no such policy then they are entitled to collect and decide wether to build or not to build a steel??

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

quote:

---

I doubt if the average American is very aware of it, but having lived outside the U.S. for about a year now I've become aware that the eyes of the world are upon the U.S. and our actions. The world is very interested in the goings on in the U.S. and even just how we act as a people. I believe most of the world has respect for America and Americans, even if some don't particularly seem to like us.

---

Jim:
people in the whole world are worried, about what' s going on in political ways. This has nothing to do with the normal people like us! policies that are 'discussable' have their roots everywhere in the world. I have personally never met an American a$$hole, and I hope I never will!
regards, Johan

If this incident alters a persons thoughts about America they are out of their mind.It does not alter my thoughts about you people.
People may agree or disagree about some issue's on the forum now and then.But that does not give 'em the right to think that all American's are the same.

quote:

---

Jim's point on it being a bad reflection on America is telling also, and a new twist..

---

People are people.
Everybody makes misstakes........i sure do.

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

I always remember the late Harry Hess when I think of your problem. Harry went far out of his way to help you.

I was surprised when you sold your new Emmons so fast.
I saw your ad on the same day Harry passed away. I thought that was so ironic.

There's many similar stories, such as http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/007315.html