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Author
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Topic: ZB Pedal Steel Guitars - Please help!
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Alan Harrison
Member From: Murfreesboro Tennessee, USA
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posted 26 December 2005 09:52 AM
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My first pro model steel was a ZB D-10 with eight floor and five knee levers. It was a beautiful red front and rear with natural clear top in birds eye maple. I bought it from Larry Petre in Bakersfield, CA in 1972 and played it in that area for about three years. I sold it to a man in Delano, CA, about 1975. Tom Brumley told me he thought it was the last guitar he inspected before the company was moved to Arizona. I do have some photos but have lost track of the serial number. Larry may have it in his records. Many great memories of the ZB.------------------
Emmons LeGrande II D-10, 8 & 5, Willy D-10, 8 & 8 two Peavey 112's, Profex II and Hilton Pedal.
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John Rutledge
Member From: Bakersfield, California, USA
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posted 26 December 2005 10:19 AM
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Hope you guys (gals) will forgive me for the spelling, I never did get good grades in english.
I don't know whether or not I have the right equipment to do this, But if I can I will put the movies on the air. I talk to and see my kids on the computer, and they see me. So maybe I can put the movies I have on the inside of the Z.B.Factory on the air. I can't myself, But maybe my Grandson can. He's the one with all the knowledge around here. I'll get back with you guys after I talk to him.
Merry Christmas John |
Alan Harrison
Member From: Murfreesboro Tennessee, USA
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posted 27 December 2005 05:50 AM
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Thanks John, had an e-mail from Larry this am, he tried to look up the SN. Said his records did not show it in 1973. It could have been mid 1972 or earlier, my memory is pretty short. Back in those years, "Ole Chops Petre" was eaten up with ZB. Thanks.------------------
Emmons LeGrande II D-10, 8 & 5, Willy D-10, 8 & 8 two Peavey 112's, Profex II and Hilton Pedal.
[This message was edited by Alan Harrison on 30 December 2005 at 04:56 AM.]
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Lyle Clary
Member From: Decatur, Illinois, USA
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posted 28 December 2005 06:06 PM
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Larry or John Can you give us a time line of the different factories in which the ZBs were made? Arkansas, California, Arizona with I believe another state along the line.------------------
1969 ZB Custom D10, BMI S10, 1981 Peavy Musician Mark III, 15 Inch Black Widow, custom enclosure
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John Rutledge
Member From: Bakersfield, California, USA
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posted 30 December 2005 10:25 AM
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Hi Lyle
I worked for Mosrite of California untill they went bankrupt In February of 1969. I think it was march the 1st( maybe a day or so one way or the other) that I went to work for Z.B. Guitar Co. Zane taught me himself how to build the complete guitar, we even made the cases for them. Z.B. Guitar Co. moved to california in 1968. I don't know exactly which month. The owners of the company moved me and the company to Phoenix,Arizona February 1st 1971. I was at this time General Manager of the company. I don't know what happened after I came back to bakersfield, but in January of 1972 I came back to Bakersfield, and went to work for Mosrite of California, which at that time I was General Manager. I hope some of these dates will help you. After I left Z.B. Bill Sims (the owner of Z.B. Guitar Co.) Had Zane Beck come to Arz. to help him run the company, and find someone who was qualified to work and run the company. After this point I don't know what happered.
[This message was edited by John Rutledge on 30 December 2005 at 08:18 PM.] [This message was edited by John Rutledge on 30 December 2005 at 08:20 PM.] [This message was edited by John Rutledge on 30 December 2005 at 08:23 PM.] |
Lyle Clary
Member From: Decatur, Illinois, USA
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posted 31 December 2005 08:36 AM
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Thanks John, That really helped.------------------
1969 ZB Custom D10, BMI S10, 1981 Peavy Musician Mark III, 15 Inch Black Widow, custom enclosure
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Pat Kelly
Member From: Wentworthville, New South Wales, Australia
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posted 01 January 2006 01:10 AM
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I haven't done much work under my guitar since I got it. Just a bit of adjustment here and there and a bit of spray lubricant.
For a while I had felt that the "throw" on the E lower lever was too great and finally resolved to do something about it. I needed to put a longer threaded bolt on the cross bar to connect to the pull rods. To do this I needed to disconnect a good number of other pull rods because the E lower rods were now travelling a different path. Anyway, to cut a long story short I achieved what I wanted and the throw on the E lower is now pretty close to what I wanted.
The problem?
My A 5th now won't lower back reliably after a raise. I've tracked this to the C pedal as disconnecting this pedal's cross plate and letting the rods "float" gets rid of the problem testing against the A pedal.I've read other posts on this problem and checked the usual suspects. The rods seem free. Friction points are lubricated etc. The changer must be adequately lubricated or the change wouldn't return on the A pedal (right or wrong). What's next? |
B. Greg Jones
Member From: London, KY USA
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posted 01 January 2006 06:41 AM
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Pat, With the guitar upside down, press your A pedal and watch what the 5th string changer finger does> It should return to the inside of the endplate when you let off the pedal. If it doesn't, make sure the pull rod on string 5 is not too tight or the hook end in the changer is not hanging up on another pullrod. Also the endplate tuners: If you dont have a change on any finger, raise or lower do not tighten the tuners all the way down. Lets say pedal A raises the 5th string one whole tone. If you dont have a lower on that string and have the lowering tuner tight against the endplate, it puts a bind on the changer finger and it will hang up and work stiff.The other thing you need to look at is the lowering finger for that pull. If you press the A pedal and the lowering finger moves with the raise finger, you need to tighten the lowering spring just enough to hold the lowering finger in place during a raise. If not you are getting way more travel to get the raise than you should and it can also bind when the finger is pulled too far. If the changer finger is returning back to the endplate then, you need to check the nut rollers. The string can be hanging up there. They need to be cleaned and oiled.
This is the same for the changer end also. Hope some of this helps, Happy New Year!!! Greg
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Pat Kelly
Member From: Wentworthville, New South Wales, Australia
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posted 02 January 2006 12:06 AM
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Thanks for the input Greg. The roller nuts are free and the fingers seem to be 0perating correctly. I may have tightened up the pull rod connectors too much when I put them back in. I'm assuming that this would provide some possible tension in the rods working against the return spring. I didn't want them flopping around so I tightened them up nice and taut. At the moment I'm going to pull the C pedal rods out again and put them back with less tension. Obviously the rods shouldn''t be hanging around too loose. What is an optimal compromise between too loose and interfering with the return spring? Any guide on this or is it trial and error and experience. Thanks again and A Happy and Prosperous New year. |
B. Greg Jones
Member From: London, KY USA
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posted 02 January 2006 03:12 PM
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If its on a raise, how tight you have the pull rods will not affect the lowering spring. When you tighten up your pull rods, you need to leave a little slack in them. Not enough that they fall out of the slots in the changer.You also need to watch the pull rods when you are balancing them. You want the pulls to end up on the endplate at the same time and this requires that each pull rod has to be different on a ZB. When you are adjusting 1 rod and get it too tight, the other pullrod on that pedal will end up too tight also. Sounds like you have them a little too snug. Back each one off while watching the changer, just enough to let the changer rest on the inside of the endplate. Email me if ya need any more help. Greg |
Craig A Davidson
Member From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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posted 03 January 2006 08:36 PM
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 [This message was edited by Craig A Davidson on 03 January 2006 at 08:46 PM.] |
Jon Knudtson
New Member From: Yuma, Arizona
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posted 06 January 2006 11:14 AM
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Blonde D10 8/4 #0560 just showed up on the doorstep thanks to Kevin. Sounds like a million bucks. Does someone e-mail me the password and secret handshake? |
Larry Chung
Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA
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posted 06 January 2006 11:26 AM
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Congratulations, Jon:No secret handshake required. Just that silly looking grin that will appear on your face once you start playing your ZB. I would recommend a towel to wipe off the drool around your mouth as you play. I'll add you to the database and my compliments, also, to Kevin for finding and sharing such a lovely guitar with the folks on the Forum. All ZBest,
Larry ------------------
Larry Chung
'67 ZB D-10 8+4 (ser. #1077)
'69 ZB S-10 3+4 (ser. #0124)
'70 ZB D-10 8+4 (ser.# 0215)
'71 ZB Custom S-11 4+4 (ser. #0252) |
Kevin Hatton
Member From: Amherst, N.Y.
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posted 06 January 2006 02:53 PM
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Welcome aboard Jon. You got a good one. Any questions we are always here. |
Brendan Mitchell
Member From: Melbourne Australia
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posted 06 January 2006 08:15 PM
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My pedals,ab, were getting very heavy to press but because it happened slow I didn't realise until it became quite a problem . A few drops of light oil on the changer and hey presto problem fixed . I was always shy about lubricating pedal steels after the mess my P/P got into but I think with the ZB it is needed. I know this has been discussed before but this is a little reminder to people like myself who do their maintenance when it stops working.
Brendan |
Henry Nagle
Member From: Santa Rosa, California
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posted 08 January 2006 09:16 PM
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Hi folks.... Am I correct in assuming that any ZB with formica is a student model? |
Larry Chung
Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA
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posted 09 January 2006 08:43 AM
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Hi Henry:I'm not aware of any student or pro model ZBs that had a formica covering or body. The student model ZBs I've seen (and owned) had a particle board body with a colorful (blue, red, or black) plastic covering over the top and keyhead, and a thick metal frame (like an old Fender pedal steel) surrounding the outer edge of the body. They usually came with three pedals and one knee lever. The changer was just like the pro model, but the pickup only had one setting with one coil (unlike the pro models, where you could choose 1, 2 or three coils). Nice guitars, and I believe Zane Beck recorded a complete album to demonstrate the student steel. Perhaps what you've seen is a BMI? Many if not all of these were formica, and used the same type of changer as the ZB. (Beck Musical Instruments, Zane Beck Guitars, hmmm...) All ZBest,
Larry[This message was edited by Larry Chung on 09 January 2006 at 08:45 AM.] |
Papa Joe Pollick
Member From: Pontiac, Michigan, USA
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posted 12 January 2006 06:35 PM
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Well I just learned that I don't belong to this great Z B club..After much searching I've learned that my PSG is actualy a "Blanton"..The guy I got it from said it was built by Zane Beck,but I found pics. and info that proves it is a Blanton,built by Jerry Blanton.Now my quest is for more info on this great sounding guitar.You ZBers have fun..LOVE this forum..PJ |
Russ Tkac
Member From: Waterford, Michigan, USA
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posted 14 January 2006 05:20 PM
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Papa Joe. Too bad you don't have a ZB we live so close together!  I've heard great things about the Blanton.Russ |
Lyndel Anderson
Member From: Indiana, USA
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posted 24 January 2006 05:41 PM
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Larry,
I have the mica zb that henry was asaking about. I checked with several sources and found it to be "legally" a zb but not one of the zb desirables. It was made in the early 90s by Basil Smith in Evansville, Indiana. Bud Hall a steel dealer in Evansville said he had it in his shop at one time years ago when Basil was trying to continue building zbs. I sent pictures to Bud and also Kevin Hatton and both agreed it was a ZB, but not one of the desirable ones. Just thought you would like to know where the ZBs ended.
I enjoy your thread and hope it doesn't die.
Lyndel------------------
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Duncan Hodge
Member From: DeLand, FL USA
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posted 24 January 2006 06:07 PM
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Hello guys,
I'm in the middle of a makeover on my 69-70 D-10. I'm changing the setup, now that I believe...I hope that I believe, that I have finally learned to work on the beast. I'm even putting on some really cool white fretboards that I got from Kevin. By the way, Larry, if you want my old black fretboards send me your address and I'll send them to you. The question I have is what kind of tuners fit on this vintage ZB. I have a couple of very tired old ones that have just come apart. The local music stores don't have ones that fit. They are too wide for the holes. One local guy offered to drill out the holes, but I don't believe that my ZB is ready for such an intrusion. I believe that Sam Ash in Orlando has the right ones, but am looking for some suggestions. Thanks.
Duncan
[This message was edited by Duncan Hodge on 24 January 2006 at 06:10 PM.] |
Larry Chung
Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA
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posted 24 January 2006 07:04 PM
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Hi Lyndel:Thanks for the information about your ZB and also for your well-wishes. I'm delighted that this thread continues to grow and that these wonderful guitars are still out there being played and loved. Duncan - you have mail! (: ZBest,
Larry |
Jim Cohen
Member From: Philadelphia, PA
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posted 25 January 2006 04:52 AM
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OK, but can we stop after 1,000 posts? (Please?) |
Russ Tkac
Member From: Waterford, Michigan, USA
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posted 25 January 2006 05:04 AM
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I hope not. This is more fun to read than shipping problems about saxophones. |
Papa Joe Pollick
Member From: Pontiac, Michigan, USA
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posted 25 January 2006 08:57 AM
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Yeah,keep it goin. As a matter of fact, I'd like to see the players, using other brands, starting posts and talking about thier guitars.Sure make it easier to gather info on a particular brand.
Hey Russ,We should get together for a coffee break some time..I'd like to meet you and pick your brain. PJ------------------
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up,totally worn out,and loudly proclaiming:"WOW,what a ride!"
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Lyle Clary
Member From: Decatur, Illinois, USA
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posted 27 January 2006 06:21 PM
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In an earlier thread on this page., Larry mentioned that BMI used the same changers as the ZB's. My 69 has a type that uses the bent rod at the changer and the turn buckles . I guess my question is when did ZB/BMI go to the improved changer with the nylon nuts?------------------
1969 ZB Custom D10, BMI S10, 1981 Peavy Musician Mark III, 15 Inch Black Widow, custom enclosure
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tom anderson
Member From: leawood, ks., usa
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posted 27 January 2006 07:07 PM
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I haven't seen the whole line of ZB's & even though both the ZB & BMI were designed by Zane Beck, the changer on my ZB vs. the changer on the BMI is different. As most or all of you know, the ZB changer has slots where the pull rod hooks into & a threaded rod welded to the changer sticking through a hole in the endplate. The tuner screws onto that rod. When you step on the pedals the tuner pulls against & rests on the endplate, & I think that is one of the factors in the "ZB sound", much like the push pull Emmons. The BMI I owned had a changer with holes that the pull rod went through, & the tuner was screwed onto the pull rod itself (with nylon & steel bullet nose spacers), much like modern all pull guitars. The tuner does not rest against the endplate, but either goes through holes or a routed out space in the endplate. Those two changer's in those guitars are different. |
Henry Nagle
Member From: Santa Rosa, California
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posted 28 January 2006 10:52 AM
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Improvement? I personally prefer the feel of ZB (and Kline) endplate tuners. - Not that there's anything wrong with feeling opposite . |
Duncan Hodge
Member From: DeLand, FL USA
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posted 29 January 2006 11:15 AM
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Hey Henry,
Congrats on the new ZB. When will you be posting some pictures of the "new guy"?
Duncan |
Kevin Hatton
Member From: Amherst, N.Y.
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posted 01 February 2006 09:25 PM
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Just to let everyone know. I am making custom split cases covered in genuine Fender Tolex for ZB's now. There's one case for the body and another for the pedal rack and legs. The body case has external wheels at one end and a spring handle at the other. Makes transporting a breeze. The cases are lined with plush velour. Premium shiny hardware. Wine color is standard, but I can do any color including Zebra and Tiger. VERY classy looking cases. $295.00 for the set. Email me for pictures. I will be making them for Emmons Push/Pulls and Sho-Buds also. [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 01 February 2006 at 09:32 PM.] [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 10 February 2006 at 10:40 PM.] |
Lyle Clary
Member From: Decatur, Illinois, USA
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posted 10 February 2006 05:59 PM
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Henry, When I said improved pullers I guess what I really meant was pedal and knee levers were easier to change with the BMI setup.------------------
1969 ZB Custom D10, BMI S10, 1981 Peavy Musician Mark III, 15 Inch Black Widow, custom enclosure
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Lyle Clary
Member From: Decatur, Illinois, USA
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posted 10 February 2006 06:00 PM
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Henry, When I said improved pullers I guess what I really meant was pedal and knee levers were easier to change with the BMI setup.------------------
1969 ZB Custom D10, BMI S10, 1981 Peavy Musician Mark III, 15 Inch Black Widow, custom enclosure
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Mike Winter
Member From: Oregon City, Oregon, USA
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posted 11 February 2006 09:01 AM
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I recently sold my old Maverick on eBay...made out just great. My friend Harley has graciously loaned me his old ZB Custom until I get my own, which will be "sometime." Anyway, I was wondering if I could be in the club temporarily, since technically I am playing a ZB? Seriously, it was so cool of Harley to do this for me. It is a great sounding S-10, and I'm having a ball discovering the lever changes I had been missing with the Maverick. A public thank you Harley, you're the best! (Also, thanks to Doug Jones for tips and lessons here and there.) FYI, here are the technical details: it is serial #0509 (Phoenix), black body/blonde neck, 4 pedals/4 knees, great tone, plays well. BTW, if you guys ever get out to the Portland, Oregon area, be sure to catch Harley and his band The Buckles. They've got the Bakersfield sound nailed, and you'll see why Harley is considered one of the best players around. ------------------
Mike
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Blue Moon Highway
(Country Music...and then some.)
www.bluemoonhighway.com |
Larry Chung
Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA
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posted 12 February 2006 12:17 PM
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Hi Mike and Forum Members:No membership needed in this "club". In fact, I hope this thread, long as it is, isn't taken as something that's exclusive or snobbish. It's been running for a long time, and I'm amazed at the continuted interest and posts. Thanks again to bOb for keeping it on the server, and to all of you for your input, stories, photos and memories. Let me be clear about this thread - it's meant primarily as an information resource for all of the Forum folks, whether you play or have played a ZB or not, whether you own or have ever owned a ZB or not, and (especially) whether you like or love them or not. And also about your experiences with Zane Beck, founder, designer, great player and great person. I'd rather share more information about your experiences with these guitars, good or bad, than less information, and I hope you all feel the same way! The only membership requirement that I can think of is that you "must" love music and the steel guitar, too. So I think we can all join up... All ZBest,
Larry |
Mike Winter
Member From: Oregon City, Oregon, USA
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posted 12 February 2006 03:29 PM
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Larry, I asked about the club with tongue in cheek...sorry if I wasn't clear. I used to drive an old air-cooled VW, and there was a similar vibe amongst the owners. It wasn't a club, per se, but it felt like one because there was a strong, common interest. I feel like the ZB vibe is similar. It's been a great, informative thread. Please keep it up. Here's another chance to thank b0b as well, for having such a great Forum. I have learned so much here. Thanks again. ------------------
Mike
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Blue Moon Highway
(Country Music...and then some.)
www.bluemoonhighway.com [This message was edited by Mike Winter on 12 February 2006 at 03:30 PM.] [This message was edited by Mike Winter on 12 February 2006 at 05:05 PM.]
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Duncan Hodge
Member From: DeLand, FL USA
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posted 12 February 2006 03:36 PM
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Welcome Mike. Yes you can be a member here anytime you like. They even let me stick around after I stupidly sold mine. I did get some ribbing when it bought it back.
Anyway, I recently bought some white fretboards from Kevin Hatton and put them on. Here is a picture with white fretboards a la Kevin. Wish me luck, this week I plan on totally changing the setup to make the E9 setup more like the setup on my SD-10. Maybe Greg will want to see it again so badly that he will want to ship it to Kentucky, change the setup for free, and then send it back to me. Maybe not. In any event, wish me luck.
Duncan
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Kevin Hatton
Member From: Amherst, N.Y.
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posted 12 February 2006 07:06 PM
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Duncan, the whites really dressed it up. I p-refer them over the black on most guitars. |
Lyle Clary
Member From: Decatur, Illinois, USA
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posted 17 February 2006 05:37 PM
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Dear Duncan, I am jealous of your blue D10. I wish my blue one was as bright deep blue as yours. I guess 37 years has faded the colors a bit. Then again I do not believe when I got it were the colors that bright.------------------
1969 ZB Custom D10, BMI S10, 1981 Peavy Musician Mark III, 15 Inch Black Widow, custom enclosure
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Russ Tkac
Member From: Waterford, Michigan, USA
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posted 17 February 2006 06:35 PM
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Duncan,Looks good! I like the white too. I would have bet you would have bought that S-11 in the for sale section and had pictures posted by now. Also, Greg is too busy with his Harley to mess with your ZB and Billy Knowles would rather be golfing. Looks like you're on your own. Have fun,
Russ |
Larry Chung
Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA
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posted 18 February 2006 08:07 AM
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Congrats, Duncan, the blue guitar looks lovely. You ZBers out there get to see a real treat with this one. Most blue (and other colors, too) ZBs have faded to either a battleship grey or even a dark brown. This one looks like it probably did when it left the "factory", sparkling deep blue showcasing the lovely striped maple that seems to be a hallmark of all of these guitars. Rumour has it that food coloring was actually used to tint the guitars... (Is that true?)Mike, seriously, welcome to the thread.
Kevin, the white fretboards are definitely easier to see in a dark club. Only problem - after a set, it usually takes a few minutes for everything I look at to not have ZB position markers etched on them...
Russ, I would've bet YOU would have bought one of the ZBs for sale... (;
Lyle, my blue D-10 has faded, but still sounds like a champ. Every so often when I'm playing it or just passing by, the light will hit the finish at just the right angle and that birdseye/swirl will just pop right out. And then I have to stop and drool for awhile... All ZBest,
LC [This message was edited by Larry Chung on 18 February 2006 at 08:24 AM.]
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