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Author
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Topic: ZB Pedal Steel Guitars - Please help!
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Larry Chung
Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA
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posted 28 October 2002 03:12 PM
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Hello Fellow Forumites:As a pet project for my copious free time, as a labor of love, and as a service to all of you, I've decided to compile a database of all information pertaining to ZB guitars that I can find. I've looked back over the Forum Archives and come up with alot of information already, but I'm sure there's a whole lot more. I would like to ask your help if you own, ever had owned, or know anyone who owns a ZB guitar. I certainly don't want to clutter the Forum, but I would really appreciate information on ZBs. I will also put my email project address at the bottom of this post to mail me directly. I'm looking for the following information: 1. Type of ZB Pedal Steel Guitar
2. Serial Number
3. Date or Approximate Dates of Acquisition
4. Set-up
5. Stories, Anectodes, Memories
6. Photos! Thanks so very much for any help in advance. Wish me luck! Greg Jones, you probably think I'm nuts. Really, not, but just love ZBs! Best wishes,
larry
zbguitarinfo@yahoo.com ------------------
Larry Chung
ZB D-10 8+4; ZB Custom S-11 4+4; ZB Student Model 3+1 Yeeeeahhh, Bay-Bee.
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Dave Van Allen
Member From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth
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posted 28 October 2002 06:03 PM
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quote:
...you probably think I'm nuts.
Larry, you are so not insane!  |
Kevin Hatton
Member From: Amherst, N.Y.
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posted 28 October 2002 06:31 PM
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Larry, I'll get you the information on my D-10 as soon as it comes out of Jerry fessenden's shop. I can't believe no one bought it for $1800.00. When it comes out of Jerry's shop, I won't take less than $2000.00 for it.[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 28 October 2002 at 10:02 PM.] |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 28 October 2002 07:04 PM
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quote:
When it comes out of Jerry's shop, I won't take less than $20000.00 for it.
$20,000!  I know that Jerry is good, but I didn't know he was that good!  |
B. Greg Jones
Member From: London, KY USA
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posted 28 October 2002 08:04 PM
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Larry!!! You know I will help you out!!! I may have SOME pics around here and some info you could use.Yeeeaaahh Baaaabbeeeee!!!!! Greg |
Earl Yarbro
Member From: Bowie, Texas, USA
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posted 29 October 2002 06:16 AM
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Larry, I have an old D10 ZB with 11 pedals and 4 levers.
Ser #1108. I believe it was Glen Jones that told me it was probably built in 1968 or so. I'm playing a Zum right now but when I do set down to the ZB, that sound is what I think a steel guitar ought to sound like. I wish I knew some history on it, the fellow I bought it from lived in Ft. Worth, and didn't pass any of that info to me.
If anyone of this forum has had this steel in the past or knows any history of it, I'd like to hear it.
It has some cigarette burns on it and some slide dings, but otherwise looks real good. I'd sell it (don't need 2) but my son won't hear of it. I can't raise the E's on it, and the Zum is lighter. Don't get me wrong, I still love the Zum but ole ZB still gives me warm fuzzies.
I hope you get more post on History of other ZB's.Earl |
smike
Member From: oakland, ca
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posted 29 October 2002 07:18 AM
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i just got my zb from tom bradshaw, who has been restoring it for... 5 years!it is gorgeous, and i will try to post some photos. it is a zb universal, serial #001 (!). it is stunning... ball bearing nut rollers, half-stop on second string, 8 pedals, 5 knee levers (one vertical), blond zb fingerboard... bruce |
Larry Chung
Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA
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posted 30 October 2002 12:38 AM
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bumparino |
Jim Florence
Member From: wilburton, Ok. US
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posted 30 October 2002 05:25 PM
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Larry, Greg Jones is in the process of rebuilding mine. Since I took it to Vietnam for two One year tours, and since I sent Greg some pictures taken there, and told him some of it's history, Greg has decided that old #0017 may be the only "CombatInstrument" [this is his term]surviving today. When I get it back I'll send pics, or maybe you can get some from Greg.
Jim |
Dave Van Allen
Member From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth
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posted 01 November 2002 08:30 AM
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and Jim am I correct in assuming you are the original owner? |
Jack Anderson
Member From: Scarborough, ME
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posted 01 November 2002 08:48 AM
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Is it going to have on it somewhere a Vietnam Service ribbon and a Vietnam Campaign ribbon (the red and yellow, and the green and white, "I was there ribbons")? How about a C.I.B. (Combat Instrument Badge)? |
Jim Florence
Member From: wilburton, Ok. US
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posted 01 November 2002 10:02 AM
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Yes Dave, I'm the original owner, while I was stationed in Hawaii, I called Zane to order two new ZBs, one for myself and the other for Chick Donner. By the time the guitars were ready for delivery, Tom Brumley owned the company. Tom called me and asked "How do you want it set up?" I told him to just set it up like for himself. I didn't know how short Tom was. I had to have extensions made for the pedal rods. BTW it's a D-11. Chick and I both still have our ZBs
And Jack, That's a great idea'
Jim |
Gino Iorfida
Member From: Oakdale, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 01 November 2002 10:08 AM
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Am I mistaken, or is this not a ZB (or at least using some parts off of a ZB? The headstock and changer look a lot RIGHT... hmmmm http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=917325592 |
Larry Chung
Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA
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posted 01 November 2002 12:44 PM
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Hmmm. Very interesting guitar there on Ebay. Looks Zb-esque with the horns and lines, but the bottom is definitely not the cross-straps and pull-rod set-up I'm used to seeing.Greg, you have any ideas? Thank you all for the great info. Keep it comin'! Jim, that's a very special ZB you have and I'm glad to know that both of you are around to enjoy each other's company! (: Again, the email account for ZB info is zbguitarinfo@yahoo.com. I'm hoping to attend the Northern California jam tomorrow in San Jose. I'll be bringing one of my ZBs if any of you are in the area and need a taste of Zane Beck's skill, ingenuity, and taste! Best wishes,
lc |
Jim Florence
Member From: wilburton, Ok. US
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posted 01 November 2002 01:06 PM
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Nope folks, that guitar on ebay is a Clark. Built by Jim Clark of Owasso Oklahoma. I've got one sitting here in my music room at this minute. I belong to OSGA from Owasso. The story goes that Jim Clark and Zane were good friends and Jim had permission to copy some of ZB design. The only thing on that guitar that isn't a dead ringer for my clark are the end plates . They're a little different. Everything else is exactly the same. Even the White fretboard and the symbols on it. The pedal tuners are allen screws and they are the mechanical stops for
the pedal itself, and like the ZB, you can run over it with a dump truck and not knock it out of tune.I edited this because I forgot to add that the story on Ebay could still be correct, remember Roy Clark headquartered in Tulsa Okla, for many years before going to Branson. Tulsa is 20 miles from Owasso.
Jim
Jim[This message was edited by Jim Florence on 01 November 2002 at 01:11 PM.] |
Larry Chung
Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA
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posted 03 November 2002 06:59 PM
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Zbumperoo. |
Larry Chung
Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA
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posted 05 November 2002 10:10 AM
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ZBump (: |
Darvin Willhoite
Member From: Leander, Tx. USA
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posted 05 November 2002 11:01 AM
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A little more to the Clark story. Troy Klontz played for Roy Clark (no relation to Jim Clark) for several years, and played Clark Custom guitars. Troy's dad built the bodies for the Clark Customs for a while. I had a Clark and a ZB for several years, and although they looked similar, the changers were vastly different. The Clark was almost impossible to change setups on. The guitar on Ebay is definitely a Clark.------------------
Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording
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Bob Mainwaring
Member From: Qualicum Beach Vancouver Island B.C. Canada
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posted 05 November 2002 06:25 PM
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Hi Larry,
I think that what you're doing is a worthwhile project as time rolls along real fast now - we have to detail some of the happenings with ol' Zane gone and nothing written down ecepting for some of the guys out there like myself who "keep" some of the stuff that's been mentioned over these last few months.
You'll also notice that there is quite a nice little following for something so different than some of the other guitars out there.
To place my two Z.Bs in any kind of order, I brought the SD10 from the U.K. when coming to Canada for the second time - it's number is 0649 and all the exterior aluminum was gold plated about 1981 not long after I aquired it.
The D10 was bought from one of our good forum buddies Jake Doell in Vancouver nearly three years ago; the D10 was originally bought at St Louis about 9 years ago from all accounts by another forum buddy who now lives here on the Island - Denny Mohan. Denny said that he wishes that he'd never sold it!!!
Recently I aquired an RV3 which makes both of them sound so much more colourfull.
I think I'll be taking them with me to the other place when this place decides to pull the plug!!!!! - seriously though, I don't think I'll ever part with either of them.Bob Mainwaring.Z.Bs. and other weird things. ------------------
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Bob Mainwaring
Member From: Qualicum Beach Vancouver Island B.C. Canada
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posted 05 November 2002 06:27 PM
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OOOOOps!!!! I forgot, the serial number of the D10 is 0510.Bob. ------------------
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Jim Florence
Member From: wilburton, Ok. US
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posted 05 November 2002 07:36 PM
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Hey Bob, when you go to the other place, you might have to have your ZBs altitude compensated. Depends on whether you are going up or down.
Jim |
Richard Sinkler
Member From: Fremont, California
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posted 05 November 2002 08:16 PM
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My first 2 pedal steels were both ZB Customs. My first that I bought in '71 was a single 10 black laquer with the white fretboard and pickup. Soon after I got it I wanted to add 3 knee levers to the 2 already on the guitar making it 5 pedals and 5 knee levers. I took it to a great ZB player in San Francisco named Greg Lasser who also worked on them. He is the one who turned me into a Day setup player.My second was a beautiful brown laquer D10 with 8 pedals and 7 knee levers. I bought this in about '73. I played this guitar until about '77 when I bought my Kline. I don't have any pictures that I can find and don't remember the serial numbers. I sure wish I had these guitars back though. To the best of my recollection, my setups were as follows. E9th (S10):
LKL LKV LKR 1 2 3 4 5 RKL RKR
F# G
D# D/C#
G# A G
E D# F F# F#
B C# C#
G# A F# G
F# G
E D# F
D C#
B C# A
E9th (D10)
LKL LKV LKR 1 2 3 RKL RKR
F# G
D# D/C#
G# A
E D# F F#
B C# C#
G# A F#
F# G
E D# F
D C#
B C#
C6th
LKV LKR 4 5 6 7 8 RLK RKR
D
E F D
C D D B
A B Bb B
G F#
E D# D
C C#
A B Bb
F E F#
C A D
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Carter D10 9p/10k
Richard Sinkler [This message was edited by Richard Sinkler on 05 November 2002 at 08:17 PM.]
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Larry Chung
Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA
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posted 07 November 2002 09:09 AM
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Thanks, Bob, and also Richard. Sorry, Richard, that I didn't get to speak with you at the Steel Jam in San Jose. Sounds like you have ZeeFever, too.Keep all that good ZB guitar info coming! The email address is:
zbguitarinfo@yahoo.com |
Bob Mainwaring
Member From: Qualicum Beach Vancouver Island B.C. Canada
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posted 08 November 2002 03:23 PM
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Just as a matter of minute interest- are there any other steel guitars out there that have/had utilized a tripple-wound pickup in their build???. It sure makes another tonal aproach to a guys playing.Bob Mainwaring. Z.Bs. and other weird things. ------------------
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Larry Chung
Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA
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posted 11 November 2002 09:27 AM
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Bump-bump! My girlfriend Megan and I just spent the weekend with Pete and Phyllis Grant. What an inspiration and a treat is was. HIs steel playing (and her flute playing) was out-of-this-world AND Pete manages to smile whenever he plays! Go figure. He also showed me his ZB D-10, which sounded beautiful, clean, clear, warm and musical. Now THAT'S a steel guitar! Pete, thanks for making our weekend. Time to practice. (: More ZB stores, please!
zbguitarinfo@yahoo.com |
Francis Chamberlain
Member From: Franklin, KY, USA
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posted 12 November 2002 08:22 PM
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I had my ZB custom built. I got it early 1969. This was my first pedal steel. I ordered it with three floors and one knee lever. I got a new Franklin in January of 1981. Shortly after I got the Franklin, I had Paul Franklin to install all new mechanical parts on the ZB. 3 floors and 5 knees. I wouldn't want to part with my ZB. I love the way it sounds and the way it plays.
It is fiddle back maple and black ebony. A beautiful instrument. |
Dan Tyack
Member From: Seattle, WA USA
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posted 13 November 2002 11:36 AM
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Francis, I am jealous!How does the ZB sound with the Franklin changers? Did it alter the sound very much? ------------------
www.tyack.com
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Francis Chamberlain
Member From: Franklin, KY, USA
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posted 13 November 2002 05:35 PM
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Seriously Dan, I think it sounds just as good as it ever did and the mechanics are great. |
Jim Florence
Member From: wilburton, Ok. US
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posted 13 November 2002 06:20 PM
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Besides the obvious, the main thing I like about the way the ZB plays is something I hadn't thought of. Several years ago I was wondering if it would be a good idea to put modern belcranks etc on it. Bobby Lee advised against it saying "being used to the ZB, you might not like the way the pedals operate with bellcranks" . He was so right. My 1967 ZB D-11 has been away from home for a couple of years, I still own it and Greg Jones is rebuilding it, and I'll be getting it back soon, but anything else plays wrong for me. The ZB makes all the pulls come to their stop at the same time, even if you pull more than two strings. I can't adjust any other guitar to do that. |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 13 November 2002 07:44 PM
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quote:
The ZB makes all the pulls come to their stop at the same time, even if you pull more than two strings. I can't adjust any other guitar to do that.
Every all pull guitar does that by virtue of the way they are built. The pulls (usually) don't all start together, but they have to stop together.ZB's don't do that. As one pull hits the stop at the endplate the doubletree swivels, pulling the other stop(s) until they all hit. Perfect leverage, to me, is getting all pulls to start and stop together. The multiple hole pullers and changers on todays' guitars allow that to be done almost perfectly. |
Dan Tyack
Member From: Seattle, WA USA
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posted 14 November 2002 09:16 AM
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Francis, is this a standard Franklin mechanism or did Paul do something special for your guitar?I'm intrigued by this concept. I love the sound of my Franklins, but I would love to also had the sound of a ZB (but worked like a Franklin). ------------------
www.tyack.com
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Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 14 November 2002 09:21 AM
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quote:
Shortly after I got the Franklin, I had Paul Franklin to install all new mechanical parts on the ZB. 3 floors and 5 knees.
Francis never said the changers were replaced, were they?  |
Larry Chung
Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA
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posted 14 November 2002 10:53 AM
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Please keep the ZB stories coming along with the info on serial numbers and details/setups/etc. I've got information on over 40 guitars so far and working on another 20-25.I promise to share and play well with all of you. Thanks!
larry chung
zbguitarinfo@yahoo.com |
richard burton
Member From: Britain
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posted 14 November 2002 11:39 AM
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I attribute the great tone of the ZB to the design of the changer; it is the only all-pull (as far as I know) that has dead-stops on the changer fingers. This transmits the vibration to the end-plates. ZB's are harder to set up than other steels, but the pay back in tone is well worth it. |
Francis Chamberlain
Member From: Franklin, KY, USA
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posted 14 November 2002 03:34 PM
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Yes Paul changed the complete changer and all the other hardware under the guitar. Looking at the two guitars (ZB and Franklin)from the bottom, they look pretty much alike.
I am not at all sorry that I had it done. I have a guitar that looks and sounds like a ZB but plays like a Franklin. As far as I am concerned Paul Franklin is a genius when it comes to building (or, rebuilding)guitars. Not only is he a great builder but also one fine person. |
Bob Mainwaring
Member From: Qualicum Beach Vancouver Island B.C. Canada
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posted 15 November 2002 10:54 PM
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Yes Larry - I nearly forgot, the earlier D10 of mine has lateral adjustment (allen cap screws)on both the changer machanisms much like intonating a regular guitars open strings; the SD10 is void of these.
They may have been a ploy to possibly cut costs, or they may have been installed at the date of manufacture?Bob Mainwaring. Z.Bs. and other weird things. ------------------
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richard burton
Member From: Britain
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posted 16 November 2002 02:54 AM
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Bob, my ZB has lateral adjustment, at the nut. I've never seen one with adjustment at the changer. Surely it would throw out all the previous settings if it was adjusted at the changer? Not a good idea. |
Dan Tyack
Member From: Seattle, WA USA
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posted 16 November 2002 06:23 PM
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Thanks for the information, Francis. I just figured that Paul wouldn't have taken on the job unless he was going to replace the mechanics. Don't get me wrong, I think that the ZB guitars had exceptional mechanics for mid 60s guitars, just that the Franklin (or pretty much any modern changer) has so many advantages. I'd really be interested to hear this guitar, to see if it has that great ZB sound that is in my mind (my first guitar was a ZB). Maybe the next time I'm in KY. ------------------
www.tyack.com
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Bob Mainwaring
Member From: Qualicum Beach Vancouver Island B.C. Canada
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posted 17 November 2002 09:35 PM
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Hi Richard,
You know - the job done on it looks like a good pro' job I'd go as far as to say it looks original.
The nut being made adjustable like Z.Bs generaly are would have been enough for me but up there in "Hughey Land" is where this finger adjustment seems to stand out.
I'd like to know if there are any other Z.Bs out there with this same detail.Have you come accross this before Greg?? Bob Mainwaring. Z.Bs. and other weird things. ------------------
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B. Greg Jones
Member From: London, KY USA
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posted 18 November 2002 07:56 AM
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Bob, I have never seen a ZB with the lateral adjustment at the changer end. But that doesn't mean there aren't any. Send me a picture of that guitar, I would like to see it. As far as triple wound pick-ups, I think Clark and Rus-Ler had somethin similar to it. I have also seen something like a ZB pick-up in the older MSA guitars and Sierra's modular pick-ups I a not sure if they had 3-way taps on them or not. There are some BMI guitars out there with a 3-way tapped pick-up. I have one of them here. Of course Zane designed both guitars, so go figure!!! Greg |
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